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HomeHomeGetting StartedGetting StartedInstalling DNN ...Installing DNN ...How many modules is too many?How many modules is too many?
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1/23/2007 11:26 PM
 

Hi all,

I've been reading a lot lately about the performance hit of having un-used modules sitting on the server. I have a lot of modules installed and I plan on having more in the long run. What I'd like to know is:

What really is the performance hit? I have 236 objects in my bin folder and they total just over 20Mb. How many modules is too many?

What happens when each child or other sub-portal starts up. Do all the dll's get loaded up for each portal or does each portal re-use the ones loaded?

Would reducing the 20Mb of dll's to say 15Mb really make any difference or is it only the difference for the server to load 5Mb on inital compile.. which is really hardly anything?

I find my portals run quite flawlessly since getting a VPS account. Load times are about 10-14 seconds from scratch for the first page, and transitions bewteen pages are almost instantaneous for most content.

Is it sufficient to simply move un-used dll's fom the bin to elsewhere or does the module actually have to be deleted within DNN?

And what about removing them? I am wary of removing modules because in my experience it has led to errors resulting I believe from bad uninstall scripts. I do wonder if it has something to do with a module having been used once vs not at all. For example, I checked out the Store module once, then removed it and started getting exceptions that referred to the Store module. So I restored from backup and it's fine again - but I'd prefer to be able to delete the module. Modules I have not touched in this portal such as the forum and the gallery uninstalled without any further errors.

Thanks for any advice on all this.

Rob

 
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1/23/2007 11:54 PM
 

Rob,

FYI: Charles recent blogs are a good source for information in this area - http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/BlogsDotNetNuke/tabid/825/BlogID/15/Default.aspx

The 'issue' is not always an issue, it depends on your site usage, capacity, capabilities, modules etc. To give an example - many websites use shared hosting providers. Often these providers will configure an application pool for the site/user. By default an asp.net 2.0 app pool takes up about 30MB of space. When the first request happens for a site, every dll that is in the bin folder is also loaded into the app pool, and are never unloaded (this is the design of app pools). In your case that might mean that your app pool increases to 50MB. As many shared hosts put limits on user accounts (e.g. often they limit ram usage and recycle an application pool whenever it crosses a limit), then it could mean your site would be regularly recycled - as ram is used for the cache, it can also mean that as your site grows you can start to trigger app recycles more and more as more data/users/permissions etc. are stored in cache. In addition, the loading of these files in the bin folder does take time on first load. As you're using a VPS account, you're probably insulated from some of these effects, as you're likely to have generous cpu and ram allowances, but removing the dlls will still speed up application restart for you, so it's a good practice. As long as your modules aren't being used, simply moving them to another folder should provide the effect without risking any other issues.

Cathal


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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1/24/2007 11:17 PM
 

Thanks for the information Cathal. I've certainly been keeping up with Charles' blogs recently as well.

And I've definitely also got this app-recycling issue that I've read about in another thread whereby it shuts down and restarts constantly. I'll check that out more closely after this.

Just one further bit that confuses me about the dll's... Does each site in a portal load up the dll's seperately or do all portals use the same bits once loaded.

I ask because I've wondered why keeping my master portal active doesn't seem to keep any of the others going. They all act as if they were completely separate applications.. but wouldn't that defeat much of the purpose of running multiple sites off a single DNN instance?

Do I have to hit the same keepalive.aspx via all domains in a portal system or can I just hit it from one of them?

So, in regards to memory foot print and loading of dll's:

How does one DNN instance with one portal...
compare with one DNN instance with 10 portals...
compare with 10 DNN instances with one portal each?

I hope that makes sense.

rob

 
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1/24/2007 11:41 PM
 

as usual in IT the answer is 'it depends'. How many portals you're running doesn't really matter, it's how many IIS instances that count. If you're running a single instance in IIS, but using multiple portal alias's, then you only have one 'real' website - under windows 2003 this is typically in an app pool. The first request (for any site under that instance) will load the dlls into the app pool, they're not loaded per portal. An app pool recycle can happen for a number of reasons, such as a scheduled recycle, an unstable pool or a pool which has been shown to be inactive - often this means that after 20 minutes your app pool will be unloaded. However, you could have a setup where you have seperate IIS instances per portal, but each of them point to the same physical file structure, in which case each of these sites could expire independantly - it's impossible to say without seeing your setup.

If you have only 1 IIS instance, then one portal will use the same amount of space (in terms of modules) as 10 portals. However, as ram is also used for items such as cached pages, permissions etc., each portal will also consume additional space.

If each individual IIS site has it's own app pool then you will automatically use 30MB per pool, plus you will load a copy of all the dll's into each app pool.

Note: app pool recycling is designed to help ensure that sites run smoothly, running keepalives can ensure that sites never unload, and you may find that hosts force app unloads automatically for this reason (e.g. i have read reports that certain hosts have regular recycled app pool recycles e.g. every 30 minutes, to try and maximise the number of sites per server)

Cathal

 


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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1/25/2007 11:05 AM
 

So having 2 entries for websites on IIS pointing to the same DNN 4.4.0 installation and having both websites using the same AppPool, and both sites on the same DNN instance is the same thing as having 1 website entry on IIS with two url aliases, in terms of performance?

I have a DNN 4.4.0 installation with 3 portals, and 3 website entries on IIS pointing to the same directory (the DNN 4.4.0 directory), and the 3 websites use 3 different AppPools (for isolation purposes). If I configure the websites in IIS to use the same AppPool will I get significant performance improvements? Is this the same thing as using only 1 website entry on IIS with 3 url aliases?

 


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