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HomeHomeUsing DNN Platf...Using DNN Platf...Skins, Themes, ...Skins, Themes, ...Tables vs. CSSTables vs. CSS
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11/21/2007 2:05 PM
 

The idea that you can do every design in CSS without tables and in a reasonable amount of time is a fallacy borne out by my experience and the experience of many other developers.  Yes there is a lot that CSS can do, and if you are not worried about supporting all of the major browser versions then you have more flexibility.  If you think I am crazy then show me a 3 column design with a header and footer.  Left and Right columns should have solid color background and must be fluid widths to accomodate the width of the content.  Color should flow from the header to the footer in all columns.  This is one of many examples I could cite where CSS just doesn't cut it.  I can also name dozens of CSS properties that behave differently depending on the browser and thus takes special care when using it in order to support mutliple browsers. 

The bottom line in my book is that I must always balance the time/cost it takes to create a skin using a pure CSS approach versus the benefits.  If I have complete control over the content/modules used, then I am ok with going with a more CSS based approach, however if I do not control the content or modules used, then I tend to favor a more hybrid approach where I use a table to help constrain content areas and keep my design from breaking. 


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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11/21/2007 2:24 PM
 

That would be a great community challenge!  I don't really care about who wins, as much as what we all could learn from it.  A pure CSS design with the above spec versus the hybrid version of the same.  (I think we can all agree that non-CSS is just not relevant.)  It would make a great DNN blog post...  Hint! Hint!  :)


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
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11/21/2007 4:24 PM
 

www.duhaime.org - 100% css, fluid center, top to bottom color in sidebars, A grade browsers supported including mobile IE.

I actually don't like the design due to poor usability performance.  None the less, the method I used is covered at AListApart.com.  There are also other methods including repeating background images etc.

Because of this template and others like it, design time is not that long.  Don't reinvent the wheel, learn from people like Yahoo! As a portion of design time, CSS takes about >10% including typeface and per-page customizations.  I'm using grids now and the time has been cut again. Two years ago I would have agree that the time factor made CSS design more expensive.  It is just not true any more.  All sites I produce in DNN are 100% CSS. 

Also, having developed websites for close to 10 years, tables do not save time in the long run.  They perpetuate a mind set that design is integrated with or part of HTML.  Down the road, those small integrations mean sites have to be entirely redesigned from code out to fit a new style.  That need, and the added time it takes, far outway the speed of wrting a simple table.

Take for instance the DNN event module.  It is heavily invested in tables layouts and server controled design.  The events calenader is one of the most complained components I in terms of bad look and feel.  The best I was able to do (http://www.bearmountain.ca/Home/ResortEvents/EventsCalendar.aspx ) still has to deal with ugly event pages and ugly event lists.  So ugly that BMR made me post the events seperately on straight up tabs to have any sort of branding! now to post an event, we actually use three separate tools. It is a total hack and the most embarrassing part of the site IMHO. I'm dying to replace the whole lot with a proper module based on design abstraction.

My recommendation, sign up for http://north08.webdirections.org/, or the like, and see why the brightest minds in web design are strict CSS designers.

 
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11/21/2007 4:52 PM
 

lancelong:

Although I really like the bear mountain example, do you have any examples using the above restrictions that offer a more complex design aspect as well?  I am more looking for examples where designs overlap the various panes, but the content in the panes stays where it is supposed to be.  I have read that article on AListApart before, but a follow-up article would be really nice that would go into a more advanced example using the same principle.


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
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11/21/2007 5:36 PM
 

Overlaying content can be an issue.  DNN is so well suited to tables because its content comes out in discrete little boxes.  Depending on the type of overlay you need to work with absolute positioning and perhaps a module wrapper.  Bit hard to say however without better understanding your needs.  Can you point me to a site with the layout/restrictions you are looking for?

 
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