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HomeHomeArchived Discus...Archived Discus...Developing Under Previous Versions of .NETDeveloping Under Previous Versions of .NETASP.Net 2.0ASP.Net 2.0SQL database schema for Cambrian releaseSQL database schema for Cambrian release
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5/9/2008 7:05 PM
 

If you want a bit of history then Professional DotNetNuke 4 (Wrox) by Shaun Walker et al has a good section on the history of DNN and the nature of big open source projects. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the book it also mentions that DNN isn't tied to SQL Server, the backend might be MS Access or Oracle or (in theory at least) any database platform.

Suggesting that the SQL Server DNN schema gets refactored for the sake of prettiness makes me think you aren't overly familiar with commercial software development or the full software lifecycle. Renaming objects would cost time and development resources, bring no practical benefits, and cause a world of pain to a lot of people. Dwayne Baldwin has already explained why object prefixes are used. I don't see either of these changing.

If you think the current schema really needs a makeover, you could look up table aliases and views in BOL - perhaps you could skin the database


www.rmjcs.com - Mostly SQL Server Stuff
 
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5/9/2008 8:28 PM
 

Rhys,

I'm happy to engage in any discussion, but let me remind you that it's never a good idea to make assumptions or statements about the other person with whom you are discussing a topic. It is much better to address the substantive issues, let me emphasize that, the substantive issues themselves and not the person. Having reminded you of that, let me return to the discussion of the issues...

Regarding "refactoring for the sake of prettiness":

All improvements and advancements in coding are motivated for many different reasons, and not merely "prettiness" which should never be belittled. It is "prettiness" more conventionally referred to as "elegance" that greatly promotes readability and maintainability of code. I believe that it is never possilbe to OVERemphasize the importance of readability and maintainability...

Regarding SQL Server 2005 and SQL Server 2008 versus other data stores:

Perhaps DotNetNuke will adopt a policy of adhering strictly to the ANSI SQL standards. If so, then my remarks about schemas versus owners are mostly irrelevant. However, as long as DotNetNuke serves primarily a Microsoft technologies world led by the current servers including SQL Server 2008 as promoted by Microsoft, then it is possible for DotNetNuke to support both the old scheme and a new scheme with a simple If Then or case switch in the data provider thereby keeping everybody happy.

Regarding your claim about "no benefits...world of pain" etc:

Based on that kind of argument, then Microsoft should never have introduced ASP.Net 3.5, LINQ, LING to SQL, etc etc, and developers should remain entrenched in classic ADO.Net with classic ASP.Net 1.1 or whatever refusing to learn LINQ or whatever else next comes down the road.

However, I will always choose to make as reasonable judgement as possible regarding the trade-offs of investing new time and effort to learn new technologies in order to gain what benefits I believe are there. In most cases, many of these advancements are in fact driven by programmers desire for "prettiness" otherwise known as "elegance" which again, is another way of saying, cost-efficient because if I can read it more easily, then so can somebody else, and that means it's more maintainable in less time by more people without making reading or writing mistakes of eyes or hands.

CT

 


CT
 
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5/10/2008 5:45 PM
 

LINQ is the next generation of database programming based on years of experience gained from from ADO, T-SQL and .net . It is much more productive than plain T-SQL and much less prone to runtime errors because the the compiler is used to verify fieldnames.

All I can add is that VB is "prettier" than C# and far more productive due to the natural "elegance" of language itself.

 


Dwayne J. Baldwin
 
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5/10/2008 9:25 PM
 

CT wrote

Thanks for reply.

I do understand how DotNetNuke has implemented its naming scheme with "object qualifiers" which was originally designed (as I understand it) prior to the days of SQL Server 2005.

However, I'm not sure I agree with you about "grown up" SQL Servers and your statement about objects prefaced by their owner. Microsoft SQL Server documentation explains that beginning with SQL Server 2005 that Microsoft has separated the concept of ownership from the concept of schema so that they are now distinct and separate. Microsoft also explains the default assumptions they use in transitioning something that used to be an "owner" to what is now a "schema". Different "schemas" can now be owned by different "owners". It does provide for a much cleaner and much more elegant architecture.

So if the Core Team members responsible for SQL database architecture and naming conventions have not examined the improvements that Microsoft has made in moving from older SQL Servers to the newer SQL Server 2005 and higher, I hope they will do so.

Thanks much,

CT 

I think this post holds the "bulk" of the original question of the thread.  Overall I'm a bit confused, I feel like I just watched a political debate or read a Microsoft White Paper.  Lots of dialog/words; confusing, incomplete, and unclear.

I understand in SQL 2005, different schemas being owned by different owners.

I'm not 100% certain that is what the original poster is asking to be done to the next DNN release.
If it is, or even if it's not what is being asked, the important issues and reasoning would be:

Why.
How.
What is it going to break.

 
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5/10/2008 9:59 PM
 

CT,

Don't confuse prettiness and elegance - renaming existing objects is an exercise in prettiness, elegance encompasses far more than a naming convention.

Don't confuse the next version of a framework that's been around for years with green field development - by all means use appropriate current technologies in your next new piece of work.

Couldn't agree more about readability and maintainability, but I don't think you can see the cost of what you're proposing - improvement at any price isn't a good strategy.

Rhys


www.rmjcs.com - Mostly SQL Server Stuff
 
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