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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Can CMSs and business applications play nice?Can CMSs and business applications play nice?
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5/30/2008 2:43 PM
 

I'm at a company finally looking into Content Management, but we already have several mostly self-contained business applications that need to stick around after we implement something. Yet when comparing the CMS options we have, I feel like all of them are too 'self-centered' to work together with other .NET applications. But I'm hoping that I am wrong (and I am totally new to DNN so definitely want to know if I'm wrong...).

Skins

In my current attempts to keep things consistent and use templates, we currently use MasterPages throughout our site. I think MasterPages are a great way to go (and perhaps that they should be supported in DNN), but recreating my site templates wouldn't be the biggest deal. The problem is, even after I create a DotNetNuke Skin that looks and functions like our website, I'm not going to be able to use that skin to style non-DNN portions of our website, right?

For example, We've got an existing set of pages for employees used to schedule training events for example. The site must identify the employee using Active Directory, then must reference the application's database which had details about the training events they need and the one's they have scheduled. Administrators of the training system can create new events. Events appear and disappear depending on the dates they are scheduled, and so on. The page is fine as it is, and I'm sure I can plunk it in to a virtual directory under the DNN root and it would work fine, but how can I get it to work together with DNN?

I assume there is no way for me to implement a DNN skin from within a home-grown ASP.NET page. I imagine that I also can't get such pages to work together with DNN's indexing/search feature. So is there just no way for me to have a nicely integrated solution?

Sharing Controls

This one is more question and less observation. Can I share controls between plain old vanilla-ASPX and DNN?

When I reviewed Microsoft SharePoint, it seemed clear that it wouldn't let me. They use MasterPages and User Controls, but both have so many required parameters and content placeholders created by SharePoint designer, they are not meant to be used outside of it's own environment. so will it be an easy task for me to create an ASCX control and use it in our applications and in DNN without a hitch?

For example, can I create a header control that is shared by my DNN skin and our business apps' MasterPages? And could I get fancy with this user control - adding data from the DDN site such as breadcrumbs or the authenticated user information? If so, that would help to bridge the gap.

APIs (Web Methods?)

I think it's clear that what I am looking for is an API to allow me to build my own solutions where integration is difficult. A set of Web Methods that allow me to interact with DNN would probably be best.

For instance, a method that returns the authenticated user information given a particular HttpContext would be nice. Or something that would give me a list of all the Lists in the system. Or something that would allow me to add one...

Help!

I really want to know if there are things present in DNN or another CMS that allow me to get past the difficulties I have mentioned, or if people think I am looking at things the wrong way. Is my philosophy on CMSs totally out of bounds? I hope the gurus here can lead me in the right direction.

Thanks very much,

Jason Simone

 
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5/30/2008 9:01 PM
 

Jason

There is a lot of questions in your post, so I wont try and cover them all.  But I can answer a couple for you.

Skins vs Master Pages

DNN doesn't use Master Pages.  This probably stems from the fact it started before master pages were released.  Still, there are a lot of advantages to skins that master pages can't match.    So Skins != Master Pages.  However Skins == Html and Master Pages == Html.  So, while you may not be able to copy/paste directly, with some smart Html design you could at least share CSS files between the two and get a pretty consisten look and feel.

Controls

All DNN 'controls' are just ASP.NET User controls deep down. Obviously, as you point out, there are specific properties/methods/interfaces that are on DNN Controls.  However, you can easily nest standard ASP.NET controls within a DNN control.  I do this all the time - the DNN control code just figures things out like user authentication, translates DNN specific values into more generic values, and calls down to the asp.net control.  You can easily share controls in this way.

APIs

You've already got an API - it's called the DNN Runtime - if you're running on the same web server.  Most of the methods are public and easy to explore and call.   Not only that, things like the authentication provider are easily swapped in and out, so you can run with active directory authentication.  What you should concentrate on is getting your 'other' application to use the ASP.NET authentication providers that DNN uses - that way the usernames, groups and everything are easily shared with other external applications.  Of course, having said all that, it's quite possible to build APIs to interface with DNN, but the key question to ask is : why not just integrate directly?

It seems to me that you are able and willing to modify your external applications to take advantage of DNN.  So why not take your existing applications fully native and turn them into DNN modules? You'll get all the benefits of integration, you won't have to worry about interoperability and you will (should) be able to re-use much of your existing code.  Before you say 'oh, too much work', I'd look seriously at exactly how much it is.  All your basic functions of user authentication, management security and roles is already done, and done well.  There application and site logs, a task scheduler, a complete administration system.   Not to mention a massive market of third party modules you can use for requirements you don't yet know about. You may have part of these functions installed in your existing apps but it's likely you don't have them all.   If you factor in the savings over time of ease of administration, future changes - not to mention a huge team of other people upgrading the framework and effectively providing your business with huge value, all for free.  You might be concerned about lock-in, but going forwards you might find DNN expertise quite easily in the market, whereas the pool of people skilled in your custom apps is limited to present and former employees.  But the source code is all open and easily read, so you're never going to be left stranded.

That should all be something to think about.  I should disclose I was once a 'let's do it all ourselves!' pundit, but now I'm a 'leave all the boring plumbing to the DNN Core' convert.   It lets you get on with the serious business of building custom apps without having to start from a blank sheet every time.

 
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6/2/2008 2:59 PM
 

I'll play Devil's advocate and go the other way.  While you can convert current apps to DNN, you can also find other CMS options that would integrate better with your current site, though likely as a commercial app.  You may find this comes out better than using DNN, you can't really tell until you take a serious look at each option.  Look at ADXStudio, possibly Umbraco and possible Community Server.  All are extensible with standard ASP.NET code.  FWIW, I went through this process for eight months and decided converting to DNN was the way for us to go, in spite of having a budget that would cover the other options.  But the same may not be true for you.

Jeff

 
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