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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Why is DotNetNuke giving itself a black eyeWhy is DotNetNuke giving itself a black eye
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8/19/2008 12:19 PM
 

Thanks Joe for the long post and for fixing my posting mistake!

I just typed out a long post and got a Server / n application error when I tried to submit and lost the whole thing   My fault - I know that when you use DNN's forums you need to copy the post to the clipboard before hitting the submit button because DNN's forums suck!  Sorry, just had to vent.

Joe the main issue I have with your statements on contributions is the same as Rob's - there are no doorways to do so. IF you are relying on potential contributers to submit work unsolicited in hopes that the DNN Gods will be pleased and use it I think you may be disappointed. Who would want to invest hours on something that may not get used?  That sounded smart-ass but it wasn't intended that way.

With regards to business valuations - if you are dealing with investors/bankers that are that out of date - direct them to read Wikinomics - if Procter & Gamble can rely on volunteers why not DNN or PowerDNN?  If fact P&G type companies are severely limited on how much they can use collaboration so DNN has a leg up on even the largest companies.

Yes I'm sure that skin designers would want advertising on their skins that get included with the build. But DNN already does that now for certain sponsoship levels so what's the difference?

I want DNN corp to make money, I want the core team to make money, I want everybody to make money.  So speaking of making money and sponsorships here is another idea:

Based on the information available to me I would say that all DNN members could be grouped into two groups - DIY newbs and developers. I would guess that the DIYer's are probably 60% of the users and of the 1000's of visitors to DNN.com we see everyday even higher.  So why would you cut out 60% of your potential sponsors by making the entry level sponsorship package $250?  If you were to make the entry level sponsorship package $60 ($10 to cover the cost of the DNN T-SHIRT) then you could take advantage of the new economy method of making a little off of a lot. i.e. If you got 1% of your 600,000 members to go for the entry level package that's $300k per year!  If you changed the sponsor avatars you could turn them into a status symbol and drive sponsorship even higher. They need changed because they look too much alike - no differentation.

This thread has gotten me to look in areas of the website I normally don't.  And I have seen several of the ideas I had are already here - just buried deep in the site. But many of them need updating or fixing.  i.e. The TrainCert intro video built on DNN 3.0???  Or the demo area that is broken - at least it was broken when I tried it.

 
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8/19/2008 12:49 PM
 

Doorways exist for those who look for them and have something to offer.  We have many members of the core team and project teams who have never submitted a single line of code and are not developers.  In fact Lorraine Young has been on the core since the very beginning and is not a developer at all.  Alex Shirley also doesn't work on code, and there are many others.  The opportunities are available but they are not always glamorous.  On the flip side, I am never going to turn over core team management tasks to someone who hasn't proven themselves.  We have many different projects which are breeding grounds for the core team.  If you have something of value to add, join a project team.  They have the same needs and requirements as the core team - just on a smaller scale.

I would not expect anyone to spend hours working on something in the hopes that it gets accepted.  I would expect those individuals to start working on a project team.  Prove that they know what they are doing, and then there is a process whereby we can begin giving them more and more responsibility.

With regards to business valuations - We have never been pushed by advisors or even potential investors to change our development or management model.  This is one members' opinion which is not reflective of reality.

I respect that people are trying to help but honestly, many suggestions have already been tried, or have been rejected after much investigation.  For example, we used to offer a benefactor level at around $90.  Over the course of 2 years we found that we derived very little revenue from that benefactor level.  You can go to almost any Open Source project and find out that low value contributions - even in return for a T-Shirt and avatar or other such items - generate almost no revenue.  So, while people may think, "they don't listen to good suggestions!", maybe it is just because we have done our homework and have more context than many members of the community.  When someone tells me we should be more like Joomla, then I have to wonder how much they have actually looked at the Joomla community.  When they talk about Alfresco - do they know any of the details of how Alfresco runs their business?


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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8/19/2008 1:22 PM
 

Tony Valenti wrote
 

Just in case you were interested... here's what our default install looks like...

Tony - I have seen that version of your default install - it is well-designed.  However, I have also seen this version:

 


(This is actually from a live site - http://clanplan.net )

I find the wording "Don't use DotNetNuke" particularly interesting, especially coming a company with such a "personal interest in DotNetNuke being competitive."

Now, you can once again perceive this as being "flaming" in nature.  You walked into a thread entitled "Why is DotNetNuke Giving Itself A Black Eye," asked some very pointed questions of DNN Corp., and never thought to look on your own front doorstep for areas you could help to improve the greater DNN project or community. 

 
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8/19/2008 1:48 PM
 

I agree with you Joe.  You can't expect people to donate out of the goodness of their hearts.  Plus, even with a $100 donation, it is nice, but I bet they were so few and far between they didn't really make much of a difference.

I think that the corp has to find a good balance between the two worlds, but as Andrew Hawes pointed out, "Business as usual isn't going to cut it anymore".  I'm excited that the corp might finally have a model that works, however, I hope, for everyone's sakes, that it doesn't turn out to be something like the marketplace did.  Especially with the Corp deciding to compete with such an establshed and foundational member of the DotNetNuke society.  The key is to do something totally new and innovative, not something where you're going to compete with the people who have helped DotNetNuke get to where it is now.

 
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8/19/2008 2:41 PM
 

Wow. That was a serious post Joe.

Reminds me of the old joke I used to use when I left work for the day - "If you need me I'll call ya!"


 
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