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HomeHomeDNN Open Source...DNN Open Source...Module ForumsModule ForumsForumForumSkinning - whitespace issueSkinning - whitespace issue
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9/20/2005 12:18 AM
 

Hi.

I'm busy trying to fit the forum into the look at my site and want to get rid of  as much of the spare whitespace as possible. There are at least two blank rows at the bottom of the module as well as one blank row above and there are also spaces at the start and end of every single row.

It looks to me like the themes only allow one to change styles, not layout. I've been through all the other files but have not been able to find where to fix this up. 

Thanks for any help with this.
Rob

P.s. I should point out that this is a recurring problem for me with all DNN modules. I feel that all module content should fill out the designer's container to the fullest extent and not add any additional padding, especially not using space characters that are inserted by the code behind. As well, all table cells used in modules should collapse away unless sized by the designer's style sheet or other content - but not spaces.

 
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9/20/2005 1:32 AM
 

All these items you speak of are in codebehind.  I tried to give the UI lots of tweaking in this last version.  It should look much better than it did before.  As for expecting a time for a change, I can't even begin to give you an estimate on that yet.  Don't get me wrong, I believe UI is extremly important its just that there are items that I think are even more important.  Another thing w/ the UI is I am not even sure where we should go with it.  The design was never meant to allow layout change, that is why it is renamed as Themes and we are no longer using the term skins.    Changing it to allow layout would require lots of planning and development effort.  Even with a strong team, this would be a three month solid effort at the very least. 

Changing the theme is definatley possible.  I tried to document the css classes and added several more.  All of this with the hope that it will help fill the gap.  How many forum systems actually let you determine layout?

 


Chris Paterra

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9/20/2005 4:41 AM
 

Chris

Can I help with that, I am back from my holiday and have time to work out the best methods with themeing the Forum.

Salar

 
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9/21/2005 12:20 AM
 

Salaro.. was it you who was working or managing the skinning framework?

I have a lot of comments about that aspect of DNN and would be happy to pass them on at some point if you are looking at any major revisions to it in future.

I've just now had a look through the forums here and can't find one for the skinning framework, so I'll just post a few ideas here and you can take them or leave them as you see fit.

For a start I feel it is important to try and get that fine point of separation between interface and code behind consistent across all modules. One suggestion I have is to create a standard non-themed skin, one that is plain text and plain tables with no further styles other than what is in the default.css. This unstyled skin would be used to define the point of separation mentioned above. Module designers could be encouraged to provide unique named classes for each item/table/cell/text etc. but not to otherwise do any sizing or styling in the code behind. I feel that a fairly simple hierarchy, not just of style sheets, but of rules on where to do what, could be devised to provide a more powerful skinning system in some future version of DNN. 

Here's a rough write up of what I've been thinking:

Code-behind:
Only insert code providing functionality - no layout , design, spacing or styling at all.

Code up front e.g ASCX files:
Use tables, divs, spans etc for layout and provide a unique class for each, named according to some sort of naming standard that relates to the module name and the location of the item. Do not insert space, padding, margins or any other sizing information.

If the module has templates with tokens for arrangement of the various I/O bits like the Gooddogs Repository then perhaps the DNN skinning manager system could be leveraged to provide a facility for creating the ASCX files from user-created HTML and Attribute files. We do it for the skins already; we could do it for modules too.

Module.css: 
Style the unique classes from above in a manner that makes the module appear correctly within the new standard non-themed DNN skin mentioned in my post further up. Provide specific rules around the use of styles taken from the default.css. e.g. 'Normal' should only be used in the plain text content areas of the module, not everywhere where text is.

The result would be modules that fit tightly into containers. They would have clearly named classes that control the sizing and spacing and appearance of  the module inside the container. They would also not use default DNN classes for anything other than their output (separate module appearance styles from module content/output styles). Currently too many modules use default classes for everything from titles, to column headers and footers and it really just reduces the flexibility of the system.

I have many ideas in this area gained from many hours of fiddling with these things. Let me know if I can comment further.

Regards,
Rob

P.s. Sorry for going off the thread here.

 
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9/21/2005 12:44 AM
 

Let me get it out of the way that I am not arguing your point in general.  I am not a designer but I do have understanding with regards to some of the frustrations, I feel for you.  I can only speak for my project, not DotNetNuke as a whole.  I am not trying to offend you here, just telling you why this is not going to happen to this module.

The amount of time I have spent on this module over the past 6 months is almost hard to imagine considering i work a pretty fair amount at a m-f sometimes saturday job.  I have just now really started w/ my project team which consists of three members.  I have a dedication to gallery and tam also has dedication to two other modules.  The time it would take to convert this over would be 6 months considering the amount of time everyone would have free to do this.  Considering there are other enhancements and fixes I find to be more beneficial, I cannot justify doing this anytime soon. 

The forum design is manageable.  Most forums are somewhat restrictive in their design and I see us no different here.  Where I feel we failed so far is not really getting anyone information in how to change the current themes.  I have been trying to change this but aside from myself it is only Nina that has an understanding of the module at this time and I have even made some more changes since last she worked with it.  Now that I am finished making changes, I hope that I can discuss the changes w/ Nina and possibly pass information to the community through some sort of a collaborative document with Nina.  This to me seems the best solution at this point in time.  If I made any other type of commitment, I feel I would be only setting everyone up for a let down. 


Chris Paterra

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