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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...DNN to be or not to be?DNN to be or not to be?
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9/1/2006 8:11 PM
 

Hello all! I introduce the problema or maybe the DILEMA...

We are a company with a lot of applications, each application has implementation problemas, and the company is growing to fast for the applications to respond to requeriments! (familiar new?)

So our new strategy is to develop the "super system", our dilema is start from scratch or use DNN or similar. Some features like Intranet appears could be used from DNN, but others features requieres modification or total new development. We plan the follow:

-File Manager System with download and upload agents, and control version system (CVS) of the documents to reflect a quality system (like ISO 9xxx).
-Document manager system (linked to the file system) with a lot of documents like cad, office, etc with a lot of attribs to search for, and to search INSIDE of them.
-CRM like application
-Portals with providers, partners, dealers for colaboration
-Intranet (news, forum, etc)
-Full Workflow solution, thinked as a dynamic workflow solution
-Unified stats
-Unified Permission, control and administration of Users for all systems
-Datawarehouse frontend, Business Intelligence, dashboards, etc should be possible integrate to.

Offcourse one unique FRONTEND (web) and the entire architecture for the master system of the company.

It is possible to do all of this starting with DNN or is better start from scrach. My developer team is poor on technical and in morale, i have the choice to leader the project and results is expected shortly.

Dear forum readers, what should I do?, id DNN a magical solution for this? or I am confused?

I desperate!

Really Thanks,

Sebastian

 

 
New Post
7/3/2007 10:48 PM
 

spend u$ 30.000 and no progress width custom way.

I have convinced one programmer and possible another to follow me in the DNN way....

 

 
New Post
7/4/2007 8:39 AM
 

The way I see it you have two options, and one of them is not building your own from scratch.

You can choose to go the WSS/SPS (Windows Sharepoint Services / Sharepoint Portal) route or you can choose the DNN (or any similar type like Joomla, etc) route.

Either direction you take will have some things that are "easier" about it, and some that are "harder" about it.  A similar dilemma was discussed in this post here http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/Forums/tabid/795/forumid/118/threadid/148224/scope/posts/Default.aspx and the person on that end decided that WSS/SPS was what they'd go with for their implementation.

In a nutshell, it seems that the core arguments for DNN and against DNN in this situation are:

  • (GOOD) DNN is packaged and "ready to go" with several core modules and several low cost commercial modules
  • (BAD) DNN does not have a really good document management system out there that supports versioning
    • *NOTE* there are several document modules out there, the problem is most of them are lacking in one way or another
  • (GOOD) DNN has a very good security system when it comes to locking things down to roles.  In the near future, they are looking towards adding "exclusive" permissions which, instead of saying "newsletter role" can see something, they can say "newsletter role" can't see something.  I think that will be a very powerful and good addition to the core and hope it comes sooner than later.
  • (BAD) DNN doesn't have a full workflow when it comes to publishing new pages or editing content, though there are some modules that attempt to fill that gap (and I have no experience with them, so I can't really speak for them).  What would be nice is to see a role that is allowed to edit/create pages, but have it enter a workflow that somebody in another role will have to "approve" the content.  Again, there are modules out there that replicate this process with forms and I even think with HTML content, but the core does not support this.

As I suggested with the fellow in the other thread, I'd strongly suggest selecting a few different portal providers and making your own comparison sheet.  Look through it and try to decide what will get you "closest" right out of the box, which will be easier to customize to your needs, costs involved, etc.  Then you can more accurately decide which solution is the best.

As somebody mentioned in yet another thread (which I cannot find now), there are too many people "shoving DNN down their customer's throats... without evaluating their real needs".  I think that is a very important piece and needs to be considered strongly.  Just because DNN is out there, free, and relatively easy to use does not mean that it is right for everybody.

With that said, I am using DNN for an intranet at my "day" job and have been extremely pleased with it.  I have personally written several large modules for it (you can view this thread and find a little about our implementation http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/Forums/tabid/795/forumid/118/threadid/140927/scope/posts/Default.aspx) and while it didn't quite meet our needs right out of the box, I felt like it was closer and gave me time to focus on the important pieces.

Hopefully this post has been informative and helps guide you in your decision, whatever direction you end up taking.


-- Jon Seeley
DotNetNuke Modules
Custom DotNetNuke and .NET Development
http://www.seeleyware.com
 
New Post
7/4/2007 12:05 PM
 
We had the same problem. Our company has been developng web applications for over 12 years for numerous clients. During that time, we developed shopping carts, distance learning solutions, time tracking/billing solutions, list servers, CRM apps, forums, help desk applications, real estate solutions, mapping solutions, a DRM Digital Rights Management system, and countless other applications. These applications were built for clients and were never commercially sold, only offered as a service.
 
Many of these applications were cutting edge at the time they were built. However, as time goes on, competition from other companies and from open source products decrease the costs of services for the end user. Generally, you have to lower the price of the service to stay competitive. Additionally, a small company is lucky to stay competitive on one application, never mind a whole suite of applications.
 
After we built the se applications, we said, these should have been built into one integrated system.
 
 
The other problem was that these applications were all built stand-alone.
 
Furthermore, when these applications were integrated into a website, the client had administrative access to the application (to change settings), but had to use FTP to make changes to other portions of the site. It was difficult for non-tech clients to make changes to a .net site. They then usually had to pay us to make simple changes, which they did not like. We were looking for an alternative solution.
 
 
Then last year, we had a client that wanted us to build a website where they could manage all of the content themselves. We quickly realized that we'd be doing a disservice to the client if we tried to build this system from scratch without looking for alternatives.
 
Since we are a Microsoft shop, we searched for .net solutions and found DNN.  The idea of an integrated core framework with modules made perfect sense to us.
 
This is how we saw the dilemma. First the advantages.
 
1)      There is a core framework controlled by a team, and an excellent user community. There is no way a small company could stay competitive trying to keep up with a system similar to DNN. The separation of the teams for specific modules ensures continual development. A small company just can’t keep up.
2)      There are numerous free and commercial modules available at relatively low cost. Something that you would have to charge a client hundreds or even several thousand dollars, can often be found for free, or for a negligible cost (say under $100) .
3)      There is excellent user support from the community.
4)      The availability of this system is a significant benefit for your clients. You can get them running on a sophisticated system relatively inexpensively. Instead of having to charge them for the basics of the site (news, forum, content mgt.) you can use your billing time to focus more on their specific business needs.
 
Now the negatives, which we feel are minor compared to the positives.
 
1)      We have some large applications that would have to migrated to DNN and we would have to learn the framework.
2)      You have to change some of your coding to fit the system (I’m not a programmer, so I cant give you specifics).
 
Those were the main negatives that I can think of. Here are a some solutions we used for big applications and websites.
 
For large websites, we have installed stand alone DNN installations, and overlaid the existing asp.net (or even classis asp) websites over the installation being sure there were no identical folder names. We then made skins to match the existing website. We then had a seamless website that mixed DNN and asp.net (or classis asp) and the typical end user would never know the difference. Obviously a programmer would know. This gave us the immediate benefit of DNN, and took off the pressure to migrate the entire site or application. As we had to make changes to these other pages, we eventually migrated them if it was time-effective to do so. The DNN and non-DNN page co-exist gracefully.
1)      For large applications, we have converted the end user front end to DNN and left the administration section alone. Example, we have an extensive DRM system where we converted browse, checkout, login and other end user portions to a module, but left the Content Owners administration as it was, in a separate asp.net application.  
 
This gives our clients a DRM application with all of the DNN forums, news, and other modules. We do not see an immediate need to convert the back-end administration. We’ve done the exact same thing with real estate and lending applications.
 
None of these systems are converted enough to sell as DNN Modules, however, they will eventually get there. In the mean time, we can offer our clients the benefit of DNN with our custom systems.
 
 
We’ve also realized that many of our applications are not worth trying to keep current and it makes more sense to use the modules in DNN. When we need a specific feature not in a module, we will alter the code and offer it back to the community. This makes more sense. After being in the business for 12 years, it seems that a small company needs to be more specifically focused on a particular niche to stay competitive. DNN enables us to attempt this.
 
After being involved with DNN over 6 months, the positives have far outweighed the negatives.
 
New Post
7/4/2007 7:14 PM
 

Sharepoint 2007... I have tested It. My manager call Microsoft, for suggestion of best partner company in my country. I Spend u$s 40.000 again, and this company has not good solutions... then I figure it out that sharepoint is expensive in product, is not flexible, the workflow solution is bad, in opposite Windows Workflow Foundation could be reached in .NET so, learning WWF is better than trying to make an aplication with sharepoint designer or similar...

Sharepoint is more a CMS (content manager system) than DNN, but in the worst way!, DNN is not a CMS, is a full open source platform, sharepoint is too big and like office you don't need the 80% of functions. and the rest 20% must be customized with hard way, no flexibility and with a really poor comunity.

I dont want to be crude, but sharepoint I think, is a big $ solution, so $ buys information too, not a community, not a very good solution.

In opposite, developing from scratch is a lot risky and cost specially in time compared to sharepoint, so DNN seems to be in the middle. I hope Microsoft not destroy DNN or buy it.

 
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