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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...aspdotnetstorefront  module aspdotnetstorefront module
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4/30/2007 8:25 AM
 

Hi jbrinkman,

Personally, I have no ax to grind one way or the other on this issue, unless and until one programmer becomes arrogant in their way of dismissing other solutions.  Programmers do what they are supposed to do, they code.  Business people do something very different, and that creates a vast variety of opportunities, all of which are fairly "equal" in my view as far as solutions in general, are concerned.

The flip side of that coin is that more often than not a programmer has a tendency to overcomplicate the entire effort because of their familiarity with the technology being used.  More often than not "simpler" solutions are stronger and more viable long term, especially when they address what are more or less standard business processes.

There will always be a market for "high end" solutions, and I am not knocking that at all.  I am knocking one person's arrogant and dismissive view of other solutions.

DNN is amazingly simple to learn and use, mostly because of the amazing amount of forethought, effort and programming that went into the solution.  When compared to other "portalesque" solutions, it is head and sholders above most all of them, including the more "high end" solutions. 

This precisely demonstrates what I am talking about in my previous post, "simple" or "opensource" or even "free" does not mean "less than" ever.  Often quite the opposite is true.

I agree that none of the current ecommerce solutions "solves it all" (sadly a couple are extremely complicated and add little to the solution) but that doesn't make AspDotNetStoreFront the "be all" of solutions either.  It also doen't make it any less of a "toy" solution than some of the solutions being called "toy."  OsCommerce is pretty strong to be put in the "toy" category and finding a DNN integration of that platform would be amazing too.

Ok,,, off my soap box for now.  I guess I just get really irritated by what appears to blatant arrogance.  I don't mean to cause or even to extend a "flame" on this topic and will now quietly step aside and watch on this one.

Clay

 

 
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4/30/2007 9:30 AM
 

Clay,

  Thanks for your comments. 

In this case, Rob's comments (AspDotNetStorefront) is coming from his role as the founder/owner of the business as well as the original programmer for the product.  He has since shifted programming duties to others in his company, but still understands the code well enough to jump in and answer technical questions if needed (although his staff tries to keep him out of the code ;-) ).  It is very difficult for most people to sit back and watch their business and their products maligned by people who don't have all the facts, without getting a little bit testy.  But this much I do know:  Rob is very passionate about his products and his company and has built a highly successful business because he has listened to his customers and built a great product that is in high demand.  His product does not solve every ecommerce problem, and it even has a few gnarly warts of its own, but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding.  When it comes to business, that pudding translates to a company's ability to attract and retain customers and generate profit,  something Rob has shown he is very capable of.

The great thing about the Free Market is that we all get a vote in which products/companies succeed and which don't.  When the AspDotNetStorefront module comes out, try it for yourself.  If you think it is worth the price, buy it.  If not, then don't. 

At the end of the day, everyone must find a product that suits their business requirements and that is easy for them to get up and running.  Some people find Catalook suits their needs, others like Portal Store.  Personally, I found both products difficult to work with, but have implemented stores with both because at the time they made the most sense for the store I was building.  Having worked for a while now with AspDotNetStorefront, I will probably use this solution more than any other because it more closely matches my own thought processes.  Quite honestly, when I am building an ecommerce site for a customer, licensing costs are the smallest portion of my budget, so if a license costs $300 or $900, it doesn't really figure into the overall equation.  Given the rates for most good consultants here in the states, the price difference is less than one day of labor.


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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4/30/2007 10:11 AM
 

I agree that the Free Market is indeed a wonderful thing, and I understand the "pride" and desire to "protect" one's "baby" but that desire can be tremendously counter productive.  When I was working in venture capital I saw it often and in the VC community they call it the "shopkeeper's mentality."  And no, I am not accusing Rob of anyone else of that.  I don't have enough facts to do that. 

Still, I have seen many "solid" businesses ultimately destroyed by the very entrepreneur who built it, because of this very issue.  As you say, the "proof is in the pudding" and in that sense, it makes no sense to be so "testy" about the comments of others.  If the product is indeed as strong is it has been "put out" to be, then the market will validate it, or crush it.  Getting "testy" about it only adds to the problems the product might face in the adoption curve.  Not a good thing.

Part of the problem, from my observation of the issues here, is that many seem to have thought (rightly or wrongly) that the AspDotNetStoreFront solution was to be a "core" replacement for the Store module.  Obviously that is not so, but it would probably go a long way if they had a "free" solution much like SysDatanet does, which handles a lot of the "small" fry issues, and has all the "meaty" parts of the solution locked unless purchased. 

To be honest, from a marketing perspective that probably makes the most sense as it provides an almost guaranteed adoption curve into the community, AND would give them a great mailing list to market the "upgrades" to, which would be much less expensive, even if he does have a waiting list a mile long.  One thing you can never have too much of is a list of potential customers and "add on" sales to those potential customers.

That, in VC circles is called the "Little more pregnant" theory.  If you can get a potentail client a "little more pregnant" with your solution each time you interact with them, you eventually have an evangelist for your solution, if done properly.  Now I'm giving away some VC "secrets."  Oh, well..

IF Rob were to take a step toward "stair stepping" his solution, he probably could address the vast majority of issues. 

1) a "free" version with limited capacity either by products permitted in the catalog, or by having some of the "back end" turned off unless licensed, but other wise free for an unlimited number of sites/portals.  This "tradeoff" would gain a huge share of "market capital" for him to work with going forward and from which he could "mine" endlessly for new and more advanced/paying clients.

2) a "mid-range" solution that could be licensed per DNN instance, not per site which would allow a few more features, but by no means a complete list of all things ADNSF.  This would increase market share, increase revenues, "train" existing clients in "new" features and functions and prepare them for additional "upgrading" as time progresses.

3) a slightly less than "complete" vesion that could also be licensed in one of two ways, per instance (higher fee) or per site, (lower fee).  This again would increase market share, train existing clients on even better and more robust funcitons/features, etc.

5) and finally, the "whole" solution based on DNN.  This could again have a dual licensing model for much the same reasons, leading to a 6th and final licensing model

6) Custom Licensing.  Pricing would be unlimited, based on client design and input.  Could lead to additional features which could be "down streamed" to some of the other licensing models for additional revenues from those clients.

My dismay is often that people get "tunnel visioned" in their view of their solution.  Happens a lot to programmes and often leaves tons of money on the table, undermines their "market capital" and adoption curves etc.  Often it can even lead to the failure of an otherwise strong product line.

Being dismissive, or arrogant was precisely the WRONG response.  The right response is to "entertain" suggestions, even if ultimately those suggestions are NOT implemented.  It makes the "community" feel valued, often leads to insights that other wise, (as shown above) would have been completely missed.

Ok,,, now for a really, really BIG can of worms.  DNN itself has this very same type of potential from a market standpoint.  There is absoutely no reason why DNN Corp can't or even perhaps shouldn't have a "commercial" version which could come with all sorts of neat (and profitable for DNN AS WELL AS THE COMMUNITY) solutions.  Even customization solutions in which DNN would "pass along" to "qualified" developers, much as Mitchell does, opportunities in the business arena.

Bottom line is that Ford, Chevy, Sony, many software companies have all learned the extremely profitable business model of having multiple product lines for mulitple segments of the market.  Not everyone can afford, or even wants a "high end" Corvette, Pantera, or such, some what a Chevette or a Focus.  If you already have the majority of the "work" (coding in this case) done, why not please the market place and not anger it?  Why not provide several differing models that would bring the community "into" the process instead of alienating lots of it?

Ok,,, that's enough of this tirade.  Hope I helped smoothe some feathers, illustrated the counterproductive nature of the responses given and perhaps illustated a way for ADNSF to "give back" to a community that has built DNN and at the same time, increase it's own marketshare, market capital (aka adoptance, acceptance, respect, etc.) and perhaps even its own profits.

By the way, Nina, being the sharp cookie she is gives away some "freebies" too and from what I have seen, it goes a long, long way to helping increase her community standing, exposure and acceptance.  That my friends, is just plain smart.  Retail stores call it "loss leader" selling.  VC's call it "get them a little more pregnant."  Smart business professionals call it profits.

Clay

 
New Post
4/30/2007 11:17 AM
 

Probably too much is being made of this.

To clarify - some of the posts in this thread seem to infer that AspDotNetStorefront is just a “one man shop” which is certainly far from the case.   

I have to say I’m quite surprised by the reactions to some people on this board.  I would think that community would be supportive of more activity in the DNN framework whether it be open source or commercial. 

Many (not all) in the business software community see DNN as a “toy” for hobbyist that has great potential.  Our company, Interprise Solutions, is watching the AspDotNetStorefront for DNN product very carefully to see how it is accepted by the community.  If successful, we intend on putting resources into making our CRM/ERP product integrate with DNN at the user level.  I would assume that other commercial software vendors are taking the same approach.

Getting back to AspDotNetStorefront for DNN, I really don’t see any value in it for them to break their product up to accommodate a larger audience.  I’m think they are only interested in maintaining their focus on the larger more “commercial” projects as DNN already has several alterative for users/ developer to choose from.

Last but not least, AspDotNetStorefront is know for providing excellent technical support for their products and for many businesses that alone is worth the price of admission.

Sincerely,
Gary Harrison
Interprise Solutions

 
New Post
4/30/2007 12:50 PM
 

Gary,

No one in the thread said anything about ADNSF or Rob being a "one man shop."  That certainly wasn't my intimation at all.  I just have an opinion of a business model that addresses more of the market is all. 

I'm sure they go a "bang up" job of tech support for their clients, it would be silly to assume other wise.  Anyone who is capable of charging and actually getting the prices I have seen associated with their solution deserves an applaud.  But not the arrogance that was displayed toward other solutions, no matter how "attacked" they may have felt.  It's counterproductive for all involved.

If you like what you see and decide to go down the same road with your CRM/ERP solutions, Cudos to you.  If you can command large sums, Cudos to you. 

Diversification of the business model is always a good thing, if done properly and I was in no way suggesting they "break up" their product.  You and I both know that it is entirely feasible to restrict functionality with little if any "real" effort to allow market penetration of additional arenas.  While no one can be "everything" to "everyone," software provides an amazing opportunity to come close to that and provides for leveraging of the code base and repurposing of the code in new and creative ways with not much effort in many cases.

That was my point.  If you or they don't like the point, fine.  No one is forcing you to, the same as no one is forcing anyone to accept the ADNSF solution, or any other solution for that matter.

I usuallly sit out on these sort of posts.  It was the perceived arrogance, whether correclty or incorrectly perceived that made me jump in.

Clay

 
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