Products

Solutions

Resources

Partners

Community

Blog

About

QA

Ideas Test

New Community Website

Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

Yay... Take Me to the Community!

Welcome to the DNN Community Forums, your preferred source of online community support for all things related to DNN.
In order to participate you must be a registered DNNizen

HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Please stop breaking the DotNetNuke.com sitePlease stop breaking the DotNetNuke.com site
Previous
 
Next
New Post
7/1/2009 1:36 PM
 

whilst on the surface this seems easy, consider the hardware/effort required. As the current hardware is 2 webservers/1 database server to add a seperate qa environment you need 3 new machines (2 will do if everyone accepts reduced performance - which history shows they will not). The site and datbase are quite large, so a simple backup and restore is not possible, instead the site would need a full restore, after which the site is immeadiately switched off.

Then once you've done the NAT change, you'd have to do an incremental restore to pick up any changes between the time of the restore and the time of the switch off. This could be done via replication , but of course it adds an overhead itself (plus may require a higher cost version of sql server). Once you then switch on, you have to monitor and if theres an issue, switch back (switch the site off, and change the nat) . At this point you now need to restore the database to the original version, but also have to integrate any valid data that's changed such as users, forums, blogs etc., This would be scripted, but would still take some time.

Note: the period of time you'd have to test would be hard to predict - when the site was first updated to 5.1, it ran fine for a few hours due to low traffic, then slowed down, then topped out, so 15 minutes may not be enough, and the current practice of doing it at quiet times may not work, requiring it to happen during weekday high traffic

Of course none of this would help for some of the other recent problems i.e the denial of service attack against the sql server.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to improve this, but it's not as easy as it looks, is a non-trivial problem, and does cost a lot of money (and time/effort) neither of which was available until recently. It's also only the 2nd time that serious problems have occurred in over 4 years of dogfooding.

Personally I'd like to segment sections of the site into totally seperate sites such as a seperate forum, seperate homesite and perhaps seperate documentation/pe sites. That itself has a problem as you then have to syncronise users, and people typically prefer all functions to exist under 1 area, rather than seperate sites.

I think adding a load testing environment where the load scripts replicate similar traffic to dotnetnuke.com is the best first step.

Cathal


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
New Post
7/1/2009 2:55 PM
 

cathal connolly wrote
 

I'm not saying that it's not possible to improve this, but it's not as easy as it looks, is a non-trivial problem, and does cost a lot of money (and time/effort) neither of which was available until recently.

Probably this is a major source of my frustration.  Issues like this were forgivable when DNN was a "hobby site" but this site runs the Professional Edition which, quoting from the PE page:

"... provides organizations running business critical applications with the features and services you would expect from a proprietary software vendor including:

  • A tested and verified version of the Professional Edition including the DotNetNuke open source core framework"

And frankly, none of DNN's competition seems to have this problem.  Of course, you can't chase me away that easily...  :)

Jeff

 
New Post
7/1/2009 3:00 PM
 

mrswoop wrote

Every site, regardless of software, has traffic patterns that are relevant to the specific business.  Part of this week I have spent tracking down issues that are specific to our own traffic patterns, which include malicious intent.  By way of example, we experienced an outage yesterday due to what amounts to a DOS attack on our SQL server.  This in turn stole CPU from SQL, increased load on our network monitoring tools capturing the event and resulted in starving the DNN site.  The problem has been remedied.

The silver lining in this story is that we eat our own cooking (aka "dogfooding").  Our skin is in the game. We use what we publish, in fact we push it to its limits (and beyond) and subject it to real world issues most customers will never face.  Don't misinterpret this as making an excuse, I will be the first to agree with you in terms of ensuring that these issues are permanently resolved and not customer facing, but there is also a powerful message here whereupon we do not use customized or proprietary magic to serve our interests.  We will resolve even the hardest, most difficult issues so that customers will not have to.

The overwhelming majority of issues being seen lately are a function of dotnetnuke.com's specific profile and traffic patterns.

Thank you for the encouragement... we hear you and support your sentiment.

 

If the SQL Server is behind a firewall, it shouldn't be exposed to a DOS attack.. SQL Server should respond to requests coming from the web servers only. Good setup routers and firewalls should be able to block these attacks. If there are too many requests coming from the same ip addresses in a predetermined period of time, a firewall can automatically block the ip address(es). I am not familair with routers but these have their own defensive mechanisms. Second layer is the web server. By then, sql server is well protected. Maybe you have sql server open to the net.

 
New Post
7/1/2009 3:17 PM
 

 I'm just evaluating DNN, but I have to agree that it isn't too impressive when the website is having so many problems.  I agree with the suggestions to separate the "dogfood" site from the main site so that the main site is more stable.  Just two cents from someone new with an outsider's perspective.


I work with scanpst.exe and pst repair tools.
 
Previous
 
Next
HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Please stop breaking the DotNetNuke.com sitePlease stop breaking the DotNetNuke.com site


These Forums are dedicated to discussion of DNN Platform and Evoq Solutions.

For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines:

  1. No Advertising. This includes promotion of commercial and non-commercial products or services which are not directly related to DNN.
  2. No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or other customers to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
  3. Discussion or promotion of DNN Platform product releases under a different brand name are strictly prohibited.
  4. No Flaming or Trolling.
  5. No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
  6. Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.
  7. English language posting only, please.
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out