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QA

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New Community Website

Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

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Welcome to the DNN Community Forums, your preferred source of online community support for all things related to DNN.
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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...The desolate state of support.dotnetnuke.comThe desolate state of support.dotnetnuke.com
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11/28/2011 12:05 PM
 
senor allende

Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 69

I've recently noticed that in most cases, when filing bugs, no one at DNN cares. Meaning; there is no reply, no verification of the bugs, no communication, not even a single note from DNN Corp.

So, what's the point of filing bugs at Gemini if this is the case? What is the point of having an open bug tracker if no one bothers? 
 
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11/28/2011 12:41 PM
 
cathal connolly


cathal connolly's Avatar

www.cathal.co.uk
Joined: 4/9/2003
Posts: 9676

thats not completly accurate IMHO - the main problem is that for a number of reasons the issue tracker is too large and it's hard to see whats going on -you can go to http://support.dotnetnuke.com/project... and get some idea e.g. last week 27 items were closed and 53 were commented on. However there are a large number of items that are redundant/duplicates/unrelated to the core (e.g. 3rd party modules), and the amount of items makes it hard to quickly assess the issuelog. As such we have a plan to reduce the number (you can read the statement on the left hand side of http://support.dotnetnuke.com/Main.aspx but I've cut and paste it below for posterity). The hope is that with the number of items reduced, the QA team can more easily triage issues, locate duplicates, close already fixed items, remove invalid items (e.g. items that pertain to UI that has since changed) etc. We knoiw we need to improve in this area so hopefully this and some other tweaks we'll make will help.

Upcoming Changes to Gemini

Through its history, DotNetNuke has relied on its large and diverse Community to provide feedback on the quality of DotNetNuke Corporation’s Products and consideration for future direction. To date, more than 10,000 issues have been resolved.

With the release of DotNetNuke 6.0 there have been significant changes to the Product’s interface, as well as its functionality. To accommodate the breadth of features that now exist, the “Components” field within Gemini (DotNetNuke’s bug tracking system) will be updated to reflect this breadth, along with many more options for users to log their issues against. This will make the Issue Triage process easier, particularly when DotNetNuke or the Community is looking to either enhance or stabilize a specific area of the Product.

In order to better manage and assess issues for fixing, any issue that has not had any activity logged previous to January 1st, 2011, will be auto-closed. Any issue that has had ongoing dialogue with the issue creator after this date will not be closed. Any issue created after this date will not be auto-closed. The rationale here is to fix the most pressing issues the Community has as reflected by the conversations going on via the Comments on a particular issue in Gemini. In assessing some of the older issues, Quality Assurance is finding many issues that have already been fixed due to a Development fix in a related area, or issues which are no longer relevant or reproducible. Rather than reviewing every issue logged, it is more efficient to focus on issues that are attracting a lot of attention.

With the growth in staff at DotNetNuke Corporation over the past twelve months, and the release of v6.0, the DotNetNuke Corporation Engineering team is better positioned to meet the goal of triaging and resolving issues in a much more timely fashion than ever before.

Your feedback is always welcome and can be sent to:

QA@DNNCorp.com
Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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11/28/2011 6:32 PM
 
senor allende

Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 69
Well, maybe my wording was too harsh. Personally I think the quality of your code, developers and your Q&A has improved lately, especially compared to older DNN releases.

Still, we run into DNN bugs on a daily basis, there are bugs that have been reported in 5.5 and are still around in 6.1. In general I think the communication with experienced users of DNN and .NET developers could be enhanced and as an outsider, the contribution process is rather opaque compared to other Open Source projects.

Personally, I've been advocating my company for a long time to switch to other content management systems (Umbraco, Orchard, Typo3, Drupal, Expression Engine etc.) because if you combine all time lost on hunting bugs and working around legacy architectural decisions, boy... it really adds up. We certainly have lost customers over this. With 6.0. we at least have the illusion of a modern cms because of the administrative interface.

Again, this might sound harsh... I mean no offense.

On a somewhat unrelated note, if you look at where all content management systems are going, I really think you need some form of structured content / variable content types ingrained into the system (yes, EAV, or similar, but let us who deploy solutions worry about caching if that's the main concern). I really don't see the unstructured tab / module approach working for another 5 years with the rise of complexity in web sites. We can't even use the introduced content type / meta data layer because its implementation is broken, has been for quite some time.






 
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11/28/2011 7:32 PM
 
Jan Olsmar


www.olsmar.com/
Joined: 9/19/2005
Posts: 1354

Regarding gemini I have during a long time seen a pattern that serious bugs does not get any attention.

Some of the bugs I have reported I had to tweet to the staff to get any attention and even after that the bug does not go forward for months.

If you look in the statistics most closed bugs are wont fix or duplicates, The largest group of fixed real bugs are bugs from changes in the latest release before.

As I have reviewed lots of project in my days I can recognize the pattern from project that have a lot of attention from management to deliver new stuff but not have the time to take care of "old" bugs.

I can also recognie a pattern very common in a QA that are measured agains closed bugs not severe bugs. Eg its good for the team to close a few and put it as wont fix or dupicate before closing one severe bug.

Another feeling I get is that senior developer work with the new stuff and junior developers take care of the old bugs.

The advice I use to give in such cases is to in step one asign a responsible developer to the bug the first day the bug shows up in the system. If possible asign the person who developed the code.

There are a lot of other things you can do but this first step is the most important one.

If you analyse the latest releases and count  real bugs fixed you will find the ratio of bugs fixed ar low very low.

Personaly I have almost stoped to report bugs as it dont seems to be worth the time to do it.
 
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12/6/2011 3:00 AM
 
senor allende

Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 69
So... I really don't think this is an answered question.

Is there any way for community members to post patches and to speed up the process? Is there any way to help?

Your idea of QA is basically killing all open bug reports past a certain date. I mean, WHAAAAAT?

This is a rather frustrating experience. What is especially frustrating is having your posted bugs sit in oblivion, with no status updates or input from the core team.
 
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