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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...(DNN 4.5.0 Final)?(DNN 4.5.0 Final)?
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4/8/2007 11:05 AM
 

By focusing on the specific number you miss the crux of the argument which is that a wide open beta is not a reasonable solution.  Sure I want a couple hundred beta testers.  We are not there yet.  That does not in any way detract from the validity of the approach in that going from 15-20 to 200  focused users is a much easier proposition than trying to extract meaningful data from 100,000 users.  We will continue to evaluate our active testers and tweak our programs to get the desired numbers.  This is much easier to do in a controlled approach rather than a fling the doors open and let everyone in approach.  Every beta tester is a potential support problem which cannot be ignored.


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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4/8/2007 12:01 PM
 

 

I was just pointing out the other side of the argument so that it was not misrepresented and to that point the number of beta testers is the crux of the argument.

The point that was brought up is that there is not enough beta testing on major releases, and if one reads between the lines of your responses then it is apparent that you agree.

If you expect everyone who is a platinum benefactor to be focused users you are making an assumption that will not hold true.  The reality is that they are representative of the entire base and most will wait for someone else to find, fix, and test.  In other words you need a base of 100K  just to get 200 focused users that will give you "meaningful data".  

That is twice in two posts that you have put down the rest of the community as "potential support problems", and guilty of introducing "garbage" into your support system. I take offense to that, as I am sure many others do.

Another option for getting "meaningful data" into the support system is to let the Project team members post their issues directly into core support system.  I guess since that proposition has been rejected many times by the DotNetNuke Board that it should not come as any surprise that there are only 15-20 focused users.

On a positive note, this release has also seen the most bug fixes of any that I can remember.  That was mainly due to the filtering of the "garbage" in the public support project of Gemini. 
Kudos to everyone who participated in that undertaking, it's not easy but it is necessary.

Good luck as you continue to evaluate your active testers, and tweak your programs to get the desired numbers.  In the mean time, it will be easier for us to just realize that the first of any major release of DNN is really just a Beta as it always has been. My recommendation will continue to be that everyone wait for the first point release, which is always excellent.

 


DotNetNuke Modules from Snapsis.com
 
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4/8/2007 12:46 PM
 

John,

  Don't put words in my mouth or "read between the lines" and add your own interpretation as if that is MY meaning.  I stand by the fact that we have had open betas in the past and that we have gotten a pile of garbage in Gemini from those efforts.  That is a fact.  Not an interpretation.  If you choose to take my words as a put down to the community then that is on you and your interpretation and not on me or the words I wrote.  Every beta tester is a potential support problem (notice the word that you conveniently choose to ignore in your interpretation).  The team has to evaluate every comment they make and every gemini post they make.  In addition the team has to deal with the hundreds of issues that arise in the forums because someone is running betas in production or is trying to do an upgrade from a beta to a final release even though we do not generally support those scenarios.  All of these detract from the efforts to get a product out the door and take resources that could be focused on fixing bugs.  Does that mean that every community member is an unwanted beta tester.  No.  Far from it.  Just that we want a controlled beta test not just a 100,000 users who may or may not understand the product and the implications of using a "beta".


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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4/8/2007 1:00 PM
 

Nobody said wide-open beta.   However, it is clear there are not enough beta testers.   I follow Gemini and as mentioned you can tell how many post issues as to how many testers there are.    I agree it will not be perfect..  I'm a programmer..   I'm all too aware of that.    However, when there are basic features that have been around forever and they do not work..   that is not a good sign.   This is not a jab at the core team..  I'm simply saying....  I'm not sure who and how many tested these RC's but there needs to be more.    To say.. yes we need more testers so become a Platinum Benefactor is not the right approach.

 
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4/8/2007 1:20 PM
 

 

You may not realize it, and apparently you do not, but every time you post your opinion in a public forum those words are interpreted by everyone who reads them.  
I was giving my interpretation directly to you.  It is a side affect that it happens to be in a public forum in response to your public statements. If others do not feel that way then they are free to speak up.

So when you say every beta tester is a "potential support problem", I get the feeling it means that you do not value the feedback. The word problem in that phrase is what gives me that feeling.
Here is an example of a sentence that would not make me feel that way.  "Although there is a lot of valuable information to be collected in a public beta, I do not feel we have the resources to adequately filter that information in a way that would achieve the desired outcome".  If you had said something like that, then I may have still responded with the fact that this last release did achieve a very nice result in the number of bug fixes using that same valuable information.  The difference would be that I would not have had to feel insulted.  But I wouldn't dream of putting words in your mouth, so feel free to ignore that example.

I agree, having a controlled beta test that achieves the desired outcome would be much better than what you are doing now.  
You can start by respecting the input you do get and meaning it (sorry, there I go interpreting again).

You can also feel free to lock this thread so that you don't have to deal with it any longer.


DotNetNuke Modules from Snapsis.com
 
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