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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Apologies offeredApologies offered
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5/25/2008 2:20 PM
 

Thank you again to Charles, and now thank you to John, as representatives of DotNetNuke and PowerDNN, for responding to my call for exchanging apologies, and moving ahead in a positive constructive manner.

Now, let's continue to encourage all members of the DotNetNuke community to continue to strive to work together in a manner that promotes and maintains DotNetNuke as a secure trustworthy platform and that benefits each and every member of the DotNetNuke community who contributes to it, supports it, and/or uses it in one way or another.

And please remember to spread the word about restoring some simple positive old-fashioned values, like exchanging apologies, to a level of popular use once again in our society and culture beyond just its use here in the DotNetNuke community.


CT
 
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5/26/2008 1:53 PM
 

Since I was very active this past week in discussing the security issue in these forums, it seems appropriate that I offer an apology as well. For those folks who think I overstepped my boundaries or acted unprofessionally, I do apologize. The problem I have is that after pouring my heart and soul into DotNetNuke for the past 5 years, I have a very difficult time sitting idly by while other parties erode the reputation of the project. In fact, in the future, I can not guarantee that I will not act in an equally defensive manner should an event like this transpire again. I am sure cooler heads than mine may prevail; however, I have too much invested to not react with extreme passion and loyalty when the project and community is jeopardized.

In reading John's apology, I really hope that the following comment was made with full sincerity:

"we will be more careful about how we communicate the information as well as ensure the core team is envolved earlier in the process"

If I still sound doubtful, it is because the wounds are still fresh. Like any relationship, when the trust is compromised, it takes time to mend fences and re-establish your bearings. If certain actions had been taken much sooner by PowerDNN, I would have most certainly dismissed the whole thing as being unintentional. However, the press release on PRWEB which culminated the entire issue on Friday still makes me scratch my head.

I can understand that PowerDNN wanted to ensure its customers were safe. But a press release on PRWEB is distributed to the entire world - with the vast majority of the recipients being non-customers. For many of these people, the first impression is what matters most and if they read something about an application not being secure, they will immediately assume the worst and will never take a look at it again. For years, we have been trying to build confidence and trust around DNN, and to have that eroded so easily feels devastating.

John also indicates:

"There has been much talk amongst members of the community that we intend to push our own "version" of DotNetNuke."

I have also heard these rumors over the past week, and I can probably shed some light on how they originated. If we take a look at the language used in the recent newsletter sent to all PowerDNN customers ( and later posted in these forums ):

"As a PowerDNN customer, you have many advantages available to you that no-one else in the DotNetNuke community can provide.  The foremost of these is that you are not running a standard "vanilla" version of DotNetNuke.  You are running PowerDNN - a customized build of the DotNetNuke Web Application Framework."

It seems very clear that PowerDNN is being position as a "product" rather than a "service" - and that it is indeed a different "version" than what is offered by us.

Now, a lot of people don't realize that the actual definition of a software "product" is any piece of intellectual property ( IP ) which is licensed by the owner for use by other people. In DNN's case, DotNetNuke Corporation owns the copyright for the DotNetNuke application and offers it for use by the community under a very liberal open source license.

Legally speaking, our license actually does allow PowerDNN ( and other members of the community ) to redistribute our application as their own "product" or "version". However, the one thing which they can not do from a legal standpoint, is purposely mislead the general public into believing that their "customized" version is in fact the true DNN application.

To protect the integrity of the brand and the product, we do not allow third parties to distribute customized versions of the application under the DotNetNuke or DNN trade names. The legal instrument used to enforce this is known as a trademark, and we originally published our trademark guidelines for the project back in 2005.

Now it is important to understand that we deeply appreciate the complementary products and services offered by our partners, as they are largely responsible for the vibrant commercial ecosystem which exists today. Therefore, in stark constrast to the strict approach which other organizations take with their trademarks, we have purposely been very accommodating to our community members. Basically, much like our open source license, we simply ask that Notice be provided so that it is clear to consumers on who is ultimately responsible for the DNN product. And when you consider the incredible value which is being offered at no charge, we think that providing Notice is a very reasonable expectation.

( "Notice" simply means to include a statement such as "DotNetNuke and DNN are trademarks of DotNetNuke Corporation" as a footnote in your media communications )
 
So this brings me to my second point on why people may have come to the conclusion that PowerDNN is pushing its own version.

The fact is, PowerDNN is currently not providing any Notice in any of its media channels ( ie. website, press releases, etc... ). They refer to the brand extensively, and the marketing efforts often seem to purposely suggest that PowerDNN are in fact, the creators and suppliers of the DotNetNuke platform. For example, when you visit the PowerDNN website and it reports in the title bar of the browser that it is running "[DNN 5.0.0 Cambrian Cluster on Windows 2008]" it is clearly using deception to try and lure search traffic related to these terms. Obviously, these types of claims are misleading and are the precise reason why we have our trademark policy in place.

Now, to be clear, we have formally requested that PowerDNN provide the very basic Notice on its properties, but so far the responses have not been favorable. In contrast to other organizations in the ecosystem who just need gentle reminders to reinforce why the brand is so critical to the long-term health and prosperity of the project, PowerDNN has been downright hostile. This is yet another reason why I have a hard time believing the recent security events were unintentional.

In closing, I personally feel it would go a long ways in terms of restoring our relationship if PowerDNN made a true effort to live up to the following statement:

"We love DotNetNuke and we respect DotNetNuke, and it is our responsibility as a member of the community to do what we can to ensure it's longevity and success."


My comments are my own and are offered WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Shaun Walker
http://www.siliqon.com
 
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5/26/2008 11:33 PM
 

Shaun Walker wrote

For those folks who think I overstepped my boundaries or acted unprofessionally, I do apologize. ..., I have a very difficult time sitting idly by while other parties erode the reputation of the project. In fact, in the future, I can not guarantee that I will not act in an equally defensive manner should an event like this transpire again.

Your apology is not very sincere. It reinforces the notion that DNN developers are not much more than hacks and cowboys.

I am not interested in all of the holier than thou alleged values of the so called "community." DNN is tool which does a task. Its not a religion or a philosophy. If my business is threatened because some community is feels some alleged values were tread upon then perhaps those of us who are serious about business shouldn't be using DNN. We will let the kids get back to their games.

This feels like I am in grade school. grow up!

Joe

 
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5/27/2008 1:11 AM
 

Joe Yaya wrote

 Shaun Walker wrote

For those folks who think I overstepped my boundaries or acted unprofessionally, I do apologize. ..., I have a very difficult time sitting idly by while other parties erode the reputation of the project. In fact, in the future, I can not guarantee that I will not act in an equally defensive manner should an event like this transpire again.

 

Your apology is not very sincere. It reinforces the notion that DNN developers are not much more than hacks and cowboys.

I am not interested in all of the holier than thou alleged values of the so called "community." DNN is tool which does a task. Its not a religion or a philosophy. If my business is threatened because some community is feels some alleged values were tread upon then perhaps those of us who are serious about business shouldn't be using DNN. We will let the kids get back to their games.

This feels like I am in grade school. grow up!

Joe

Joe,

I personally take strong offense to your reference that DNN developers are hacks or cowboys, honestly a hack or collection of hacks couldn't do what the DNN Core Team, Project Teams, and even third party developers. 

The whole argument in this entire process has been that the actions taken by PowerDNN lengthened the time it would have taken to issue the offical 4.8.3 release, exposed non-PowerDNN customers to a security risk, that has been hightened due to their actions.

The compliants by Shaun and others that have been at times made very vocal over the past week are due to the intentional bypassing of known procedures, and the lack of consideration for all other community members.


-Mitchel Sellers
Microsoft MVP, ASPInsider, DNN MVP
CEO/Director of Development - IowaComputerGurus Inc.
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Visit mitchelsellers.com for my mostly DNN Blog and support forum.

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5/27/2008 1:41 AM
 

Joe Yaya wrote

Your apology is not very sincere. It reinforces the notion that DNN developers are not much more than hacks and cowboys.



I am not interested in all of the holier than thou alleged values of the so called "community."

Actually, as a someone  who make a living from DNN and take it very seriously I felt directly threatened by what happened.
Nobody forces you to use a tool that is made by "a bunch of cowboys and hacks" but if you do, don't make a hole in the boat.
I think what Shaun said was right to the point except the apologies which in my view he or the core team has nothing to regret.
It is not a religion or a philosophy, it is plain integrity and a little respect to others.
As for the "Community" it seems that you are a little confused buddy... no one is here for a scouts camp, and your business is not taken by you more seriously than others. If you don't understand the meaning of community that leverage the power of its members without forcing them to treat it as a religion … oh, well words thrown to the wind.
 
Yehuda


Yehuda Tiram
AtarimTR
AtarimTR
972-2-5700114   |   972-54-4525492   |    http://www.atarimtr.co.il
 
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