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3/15/2006 5:46 PM
 

kgw wrote
I assure you that I did read your post in its entirety (twice) prior to replying. If there is documentation explaining that all modules are uploaded as zip files, I didn't see it. If such documentation does exist, then a simple "cut'n'paste" or hyperlink in the module installation instructions would be even easier/simpler than my suggestion of adding one sentence.

I usually don't go the extra step of "chewing it up" (as we say in my country) for the user. We all owe some consideration to volunteers and my personal policy is to exhaust resources before posting a question. Of course not all of us follow this policy. Still, I expect users to do some homework before posting.

kgw wrote
Reading my previous post, you will note that I did say it was a very nice feature. The fact that it is an unexpected nice feature may be what causes some confusion. You must agree that it is a bit unusual, and certainly was not a feature the the various php apps, publishing tools, website upload systems, etc. that I was accustomed to.

I only agree to the extent that creative features are unexpected rather than unusual. However, some reading solves any issue. I am sure you did some reading for your newest cell phone; why aren't you willing to conceed that the user should read about this piece of technology, especially since it is not wordprocessing software but a framework for a portal and in itself and advanced piece of programming? The fact that you are not used to its quirks already urges you to learn and the suggested way to start is by reading.

kgw wrote
I don't doubt that people who have been using DNN for a long time will already know all these little tricks, but us noobs do not. That does not mean we are stupid or that our suggestions have no value. Nor does it indicate that we fail to read before posting or didn't go through the module installation instructions several times. Nor does it mean that anyone is suggesting the undoing of the feature.

You suggested that the expected behavior was to upload a single file and I replicated that the expected behavior was in the Installation Guide, my omission (and a crucial one) was not being explicit about the "DNN Installation Guide"

kgw wrote

Put the docs in a wiki, or make them editable some other way, and I'll be happy to simply make appropriate edits as I run across them, and not annoy anyone. I write similar documentation as part of my job anyway, so it's no bother. I'm sure that others will do the same.

Is it my imagination, or are some people on this forum a wee bit defensive or overly sensitive? DNN is a helluva fine thing, but that doesn't mean it's easy to figure out or that the documentation can't benefit from the immediate hand-on experience of fresh eyes.

(I don't expect you to publish this in the forum, it being somewhat off-topic, but I doubt I am the only one who is curious about the "overly-sensitive" thing.)

The Core Team does take criticism in a constructive way and your post approval is a proof of that. I do not think anyone is overly sensitive or a bit defensive. It's hard for the written word to convey the true tone of what a user is trying to say. For my part, I always go straight to the point. I don't like embellishing my participation in this forums. I believe that if a single sentence suffices, then a single sentence must be written. In retrospect I said: Read the manual, here's the page. And then I said: Read my post, the info is in the referred text.

Just to make my point, I've made the exception and gone the extra step: INSTALLATION GUIDE page 47

mod


 


Do you know the truth when you hear it?
Néstor Sánchez
The Dúnadan Raptor -->Follow Me on Twitter Now!
 
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3/15/2006 6:00 PM
 

I'm not looking to confront anyone. It was a simple suggestion of a teensy addition the installation docs for the forum module, explaining that the module zip file should not be unzipped, it gets sent as-is to the server. It's an easy mistake to make, I did it myself last week.

There was a suggestion that this mistake is made because people fail to read the documentation, but I don't think that is quite right. I did read the documentation for the forum module installation, several times. It does not mention this feature of DNN. It does say "upload THE file..." without ever saying WHICH file is uploaded. Perhaps this feature is described in the main DNN documentation, I did not read all of that.

How we get from there to "removing core features" or "not reading forum posts", is a mystery to me.

I was trying to help resolve an imprecision in the forum installation documentation. The documentation assumes people know that it is the zip file that needs to be uploaded, and lots of people (including me) didn't know and couldn't find it in the module installation docs because it isn't there. Other people do what I did, they unzip the file to a folder and then sit scratching their heads wondering which file to upload. Then we come to the forum and post the same question over and over, which I'm sure isn't fun for anyone in a support role.

For any first DNN module install, it is easy to make this mistake and the docs don't explain.

Suggesting that something be further explained or clarified, is intended to be helpful - not critical. If nobody can do it, then I guess it won't get done, but that's not reason to say the core feature should be removed or that people didn't read forum posts before replying (although I'm sure some sometimes do).

sheesh!

 

 

 

 
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3/15/2006 6:49 PM
 
hooligannes wrote.

Just to make my point, I've made the exception and gone the extra step: INSTALLATION GUIDE page 47



If I put myself in the shoes of a raw beginner, which I sorta am and sorta am not, then even that page of instructions is not terribly explanatory. Now, reading it a few times and piecing it together like a puzzle might eventually help a native english speaker figure out that it is the zip file that needs to be uploaded using the module installation feature - but it doesn't actually say that explicitly.

My suggestion, humbly made, is that somewhere in the docs it might be possible to clearly and unambiguously state "upload the zip file using the module install feature" or words to that effect. If each and every DNN module is installed in exactly the same way, then the main DNN installation doc is the right place for it. But, there would be no great harm in repeating it in a module installation doc.

hey, I'm even volunteering to do it. What more can be expected?

 
New Post
3/15/2006 8:05 PM
 

I really want to get this point across, just because you don't see it it doesn't mean it is not there. I've even highlited it in that screenshot! "The resource needs to be packaged as a zip". Previously in the document you can find what a resource is. And yes, each and everymodule is installed in the described ways. This is also explicit in the DNN Installation Guide. To paraphrase you: What more can be expected?

There has been at least two answers provided in this thread and you keep asking to add a simple line to the documentation of one of the best documented modules. There are a few hundred modules out there. Some guide you step by step, some assume you know how to install the module. Most of the Core modules assume you know how to install modules, and some don't even have documentation. While I agree that it would help some issues like yours, why stop there? Let's also include in the module documentation the rest of the Installation Guide topics that might cause also some griefs to users installing/adding to a page/using/deleting modules. As hopefully you now understand, the line must be drawn somewhere and I think the Installation doc is fine.

Now I can continue saying that it is there and you denying its existance, but I'd rather go on into more productive things. So let's compromise here. I will ask a moderator to lock this thread since it's already completely off-topic and I hope you can peruse the forums for this question and give posters the answer you prefer. le t me say I mean this seriously, no ill intended.


Do you know the truth when you hear it?
Néstor Sánchez
The Dúnadan Raptor -->Follow Me on Twitter Now!
 
New Post
3/16/2006 1:28 PM
 

Well, what can I say? Sorry if I offended anyone or their documentation. I read the page on "how to get involved", "attention to detail" and "user suggestions make DNN better"... and thought I would help with a very minor detail that would improve the already-excellent documentation for the Forum Module, since that is the module that I have the most interest in and will probably use the most. Having documented a lot of software and installation manuals over the years, I do have some insight into these matters, but obviously not the desired sort of experience for DNN.

Again, it was never my intention to get into a quarrel about the philosophy of documentation - feel free to ignore any and all suggestions. I certainly do not want to argue about it and will not make the same mistake again.

 

 
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