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Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Plain-Text PasswordsPlain-Text Passwords
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8/17/2008 6:10 AM
 
It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance and nonchalance concerning security in the development community. To this day, event the simplest of precautions aren't implemented. Why? It's nearly 2009, there's no excuse, and it's infuriating.
 
A couple of years ago I noticed MySpace.com wasn't encrypting their log-ins. I wrote tech support and posted a warning in the forums. The response I got were things like, "You see those asterisks in the password field? That means the password is encrypted." They have no idea how insulting this is. The fact is, they were never encrypting the log-in, or account edit pages. All of that information was being sent over the wire in plain-text; A feeding frenzy for hackers.
 
I closed my account and never looked back. Until now... I just checked their log-in and STILL, no encryption! Look for yourself. Here is their log-in form parameters: action="http://secure.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=login.process" method="post" id="Loginform" name="aspnetform"
 
If would be funny if it wasn't so serious. MySpace is continually dumbfounded as to why their members pages are getting hijacked and defaced. (Especially high-profile artists.) MySpace as been such a cesspool that the FBI has had to step in to clean up the child porn and pedophiles.
 
A single $50/year SSL cert would close it but that's too much a price to pay I guess. I will never use MyCesspool.com. I don't need the FBI crashing through my door at 4:00AM because some hacker sold my credentials to a pedophile. Nope.
 
Then you look at a place like GoDaddy.com. You'd think they understand security... that they care. But no. They refuse to implement a secure FTP authorization. If you are using FTP with GoDaddy your password has probably already been sniffed and is sitting in some hacker's db right now.
 
Do you know how easy it is to setup a Snort box and sniff this stuff? You can setup with more than one ethernet card and sniff without leaving any trace of your node. No IP address to track you... nothing. No one knows you're sitting there and no one knows what you got, or when you got it. It usually takes about 15 hops to get to godaddy.com from here. That's a LOT of space for a Snort box to be inserted. Any place along that path... and the return path is through a different route so basically multiply that hop count by 2.
 
GoDaddy.com has a tremendous problem with accounts being hijacked and customer's websites getting defaced. They're continually dumbfounded as to why. They're trying to fix that issue by putting a ludicrous lockout feature. If you miss your log-in even ONCE you're locked out for 10 MINUTES! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. This new feature isn't going to help because the passwords aren't being brute-forced they're being sniffed!
 
You see, many, many people use the same password for FTP access that they do for their GoDaddy account and GoDaddy stores your credit card information there. (This is why companies are now mandated by the credit-card agencies to put asterisks when displaying the card number even in your encrypted account page. Because encryption doesn't do anything if they simply log-in with stolen credentials.)
 
Even more serious is that many, many people use the same password for everything. They use the same GoDaddy.com and MyCesspool.com password for their bank account and PayPal accounts. This is where it gets really ugly [as you can imagine] and this has become an enormous problem. They don't like to release the statistics but this is the largest problem the FBI is facing now and it comes as no surprise why.
 
Then I come to DNN. I think, heck, these guys are hardcore MS-VIPs who create frameworks for other developers. They pride themselves on adhering to industry best-practices. But here we go again. Not 15 seconds after registering they break best-practice and share my password with every hacker between us!
 
Why, oh why, do you even bother encrypting the member registration form when you are going to turn right around and send my log-in credentials back to me in a plain-text e-mail? This makes absolutely no sense. I just entered my password into your registration form TWICE not 15 seconds ago and you are sending it back to me for "future reference"? We don't need that! That's what a "forgot password" feature is for.
 
Have you noticed that best-practice "forgot password" features don't send the password in a plain-text e-mail? Guess why... actually, you don't have to guess because I just spent the last hour laying it out for you, and now I have to spend even more time going around to all the websites that I use that password for and change them because you couldn't keep our secret a secret.
 
Sending passwords over e-mail for "future reference" is unnecessary and it's a huge security hole. This is one reason we're having such a hard time with identity theft, fraud, website defacement, etc. etc. Because the developers who write code for other developers can't even get the simple stuff right.
 
Everyone who uses sites like this. [MyCesspool.com, GoDaddy.com, DotNetNuke.com, etc.] Need to take a moment, go to all the sites they use that password in, and change them. If you use the same password for PayPal.com, your bank account, or any other critical site you need to seriously follow this advise and NEVER use your PayPal or bank account password in sites like this. Make a separate one.
 
The bottom-line is... don't trust that these people are watching out for your security. Chances are they really don't understand security or they just don't care. I doubt I'll use DNN, but If I do, you can be sure I'm going to inspect every line of code to make sure it's secure.
 
Uhhggg... Now off to change my password in the other sites, as it has probably been compromised.
 

 

 
New Post
8/17/2008 1:32 PM
 

If you take a look at your web.config you'll see that the dotnetnuke supports 3 modes for password storage - clear, encrypted and hashed. By default dotnetnuke uses encryption and stores the passwords via triple-des (with a SALT value to protect against repeated values). This is basically for historical reasons, as ibuyspy portal (which dotnetnuke was originally based on) supported the recall of passwords. We added some additional security (superuser passwords cannot be retrieved via email). You can change the storage method to hashed and then dotnetnuke will store the password using SHA-1 to generate a 1 way hash, which disables the email password functionality.

Finally, dotnetnuke supports ssl, both across the site and at the page level so it's easy to force SSL for user logins.

Cathal


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New Post
8/18/2008 3:37 AM
 

You do understand the irony in ripping sites for poor password security and then admitting you use the same password on multiple sites?

 
New Post
10/19/2008 4:34 PM
 

I see that the actual passwords are stored in an encrypted manner, but then get sent back over email.  I also see that can be disabled in the web.config file by changing that argument to false.  When I tried that and hit the "forgot password" button I now just get a notification that the website has this feature disabled and to please contact the administator about resetting your password. 

Most websites today will send a token via a link to the registered email address and if that token is passed back before expiring it will generate a strong password, email it, then force a password change.  Does DNN support this and if so how can I implement this?

The security of sending passwords is bad and at the same time the overhead of needing an administrator to deal with every password issue is unacceptable.  Thanks in advance.

cathal connolly wrote
 

If you take a look at your web.config you'll see that the dotnetnuke supports 3 modes for password storage - clear, encrypted and hashed. By default dotnetnuke uses encryption and stores the passwords via triple-des (with a SALT value to protect against repeated values). This is basically for historical reasons, as ibuyspy portal (which dotnetnuke was originally based on) supported the recall of passwords. We added some additional security (superuser passwords cannot be retrieved via email). You can change the storage method to hashed and then dotnetnuke will store the password using SHA-1 to generate a 1 way hash, which disables the email password functionality.

Finally, dotnetnuke supports ssl, both across the site and at the page level so it's easy to force SSL for user logins.

Cathal

 
New Post
10/19/2008 5:01 PM
 

cathal connolly wrote

If you take a look at your web.config you'll see that the dotnetnuke supports 3 modes for password storage - clear, encrypted and hashed. By default dotnetnuke uses encryption and stores the passwords via triple-des (with a SALT value to protect against repeated values). This is basically for historical reasons, as ibuyspy portal (which dotnetnuke was originally based on) supported the recall of passwords. We added some additional security (superuser passwords cannot be retrieved via email). You can change the storage method to hashed and then dotnetnuke will store the password using SHA-1 to generate a 1 way hash, which disables the email password functionality.

Finally, dotnetnuke supports ssl, both across the site and at the page level so it's easy to force SSL for user logins.

Cathal



As I understand it, the complaint is about dotnetnuke.com itself sending passwords via email in plain text, which is not a terribly good idea.  Yes DNN has various password features, but that wasnt the complaint. The complaint is that dotnetnuke.com is using a far from perfect setting.

JK.


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