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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?
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3/30/2010 9:19 AM
 
Richard Howells wrote:
Michael Gerholdt wrote:

 Another good product may disappear from the market. More to the point, a solution that developers and their clients currently depend upon as part of their business solution may cease to be.

  

A number of people have voiced this thought. 

We should remember that a purchase by DNN Corp is NOT the only way for a perfectly good solution to vanish from the market.  The developers/owners may simply get bored with it.  The hard drives of the internet are littered with projects that have been abandoned and no-one wants to take up.

If a module is open source then you have the right to keep it going yourself should no-one else want to - that's what open source means.

If a module is closed source then you don't.  Your rights were documented in the agreement when you purchased it.

This POV is one that is missing further elaboration from the whole discussion. What would the community members say if another community member, be it an integrator, solution developer or module developer, decided to acquire any other module and give it a steep price increase guaranteed by the apparent demand and popularity of such module?
 
IMO, it would give other module developers the oportunity to bridge the gap at a lower price point, while at the same time others would choose (or be forced) to build it themselves. Like a couple of people have already said, a module can dissappear for any number of reasons. It is MY responsability to think of a way out. Whenever I enter a market, I have to weigh the pros and cons continually, expecting change. Even disruptive change. It's business, no matter if there's a vibrant community or not. It's business.

I wholeheartedly agree that the eco-system was built by the community members, but -truth be told - it is usally forgotten that it was enabled by the founders who happen to work for DNN Corp now. We can debate for ages a-la chicken-or-egg-first style or start taking actions to work something out of this IP acquisition. Just like nobody forced us to choose DNN, nobody stops us from changing course and looking elsewhere for a CMS/framework. It still is OUR prerogative. It's not just DNN Corp that can affect our DNN business, it's anyone out there. Just because they were giving away the core in the beginning, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to do business like the rest of us. We built our business around a free CE version, why can't they do the same?

If in this process they kill the community, ecosystem and everything DNN, then so be it. We'll have to adjust. If they manage to keep it healthy, then we'll all benefit. It's just a harsh reality that has been there all along and frankly I am amazed that DNN CE still exists. I choose to thank Shaun, Joe, Scott and Nik and any direct contributors for having made it possible for me to comment about something that exists today and that makes a part of my business happen.

Whether it is a trend or not, I am prepared for the unexpected and I am happy that I am able to comment this along all the participants in this forum (rant or no rant, passionate or involved).


Do you know the truth when you hear it?
Néstor Sánchez
The Dúnadan Raptor -->Follow Me on Twitter Now!
 
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3/30/2010 10:45 AM
 

I have been reading with interest this thread.  I think that the recent purchase of SC and ODL IP has opened the pandora’s box of many issues that have been barely under the surface for some time.   I like to say at R2i we are a ‘front line’ organization, meaning we are an integrator, module vendor, designer and community contributor with much of our revenue wrapped around the success and direction of DNN.  To this end we try to always put the customer’s interest first in our recommendations for CE vs. PE, core, 3rd party or custom module decisions, DNN vs. another CMS. 

I think that DNN Corp has two major initiatives that often conflict: make the product(s) as strong as possible and generate revenue (PE, Snowcovered, training, etc…).  Like many of the people commenting we monitor DNN Corp moves carefully.   I am always watching the lines drawn between what DNN provides and R2i.

One thing I know is that business is a real life game that is always changing.  If you rest on your previous success, do not try new things that may not always work or do not learn from mistakes you will fail.  In this regard DNN keeps me on my toes all the time.   

The recent two major news items in terms of DNN Corp business moves (SC and ODL IP acquisition) are perfect matches for the DNN Corp goals mentioned previously.  Think about the SC purchase.  Yes DNN Corp has a steady revenue stream now.  Almost as important they have the DATA. Years worth of purchases. They are now able to analyze consumer buying,  behavior history and have real measures to leverage.  Do you think the popular metric - 700,000+ registered users means anything in terms of the revenue?  It means NADA.  By purchasing SC they have some secret sauce to the community as a whole.  Perhaps ODL was a direct analysis of understanding what consumers want most that PE did not have?    

As a business owner I need to navigate DNN Corp., our customer needs, our IP, etc…   I appreciate DNN Corp not staying stagnate and making business moves that will generate revenue, continue making the product strong and survive an increasingly competitive Open Source CMS landscape.

My rant would be that DNN Corp. has not focused its resources nearly as much on the community. Ranging from technical support (ie. documentation, forge project module upgrades, etc…) to marketing support (case studies, CMS comparisons that show TCO, relevant marketing material).   I have always felt our relationship with DNN can be a win-win.  The more we can contribute to the community and  DNN Corp the more we get back.  This for the most part has worked for R2i.  I think that DNN Corp needs to realize this and act on it ASAP.  Once they do this they will understand that the best sales force for them will be the front line module vendors, integrators and designers who are in sync with the pulse of the challenges and customer needs that occur everyday.  

A few Suggestions:

1.       Communicate better and more frequently.  Put themselves in the shoes of the stakeholders effected (vendors, integrators, designers and customers) and think thru all the issues and have the answers for how these moves effect them beforehand.  Don’t wait until after the fact.  By not doing this it almost automatically creates a defensive posture.

2.       Start putting your money where your mouth is.  Now that we are in the second round of funding lets see some of the resources spent towards the community.  Make this a big deal. Promote the heck out of the fact that DNN Corp. cares and is willing to do whatever it takes to support and grow its community. Find out what we really need and attack that with appropriate resources.  Think of this as a priority.  Remember Win/Win.  I guarantee the more resources spent in this regard will pay dividends many times over. 

3.       Provide better tools for the community. Make sure dedicated DNN Corp resources are monitoring these tools. Provide better and up to date materials.  

4.       Do not insulate DNN Corp.  Be more up front and engage the community to be more involved.  Create committees such as a module vendor, design/skin, integrator, customer, etc… that talk monthly and listen to them.  Make moves quickly that demonstrate you are paying attention. Reach out to community members and get more ‘front line’ with what challenges there are and craft the CE & PE offerings around what you discover.

The ironic thing here is we ultimately have similar goals: a strong competitive product, great supportive community and happy customers that can enable our businesses to thrive.  I think this should be able to be achieved in a manner that does not create doubt but enthusiasm and trust.


Chris Chodnicki, CTO - Co-Founder R2integrated, A DNN Leader [P] 410.327.0007 x1123 [F] 410.327.4082 | www.R2integrated.com/DNN
 
New Post
3/30/2010 11:24 AM
 

I have been reading through this 17 PAGE post this morning, and a few things are very clear.  Unfortunately, Chris Chodnicki said what I was thinking!  :P

As the leader of one of the most active segments of the DNN community, and a very visible community member who gets a ton of e-mail, twitter, IM, and phone cal questions from other visible and concerned community members, I do feel that I should chime in.

  1. DNN is not dying.  DNN CE is not dying.  It's development and future are made very clear through action, despite interpretations from various perspectives.
  2. DNN PE is not for everyone.  The acquisitions clearly solidify the future of both DNN PE and CE, allowing more funds to be used in the engineering of the DNN Core as a whole.  
  3. DNN PE is not expensive.  Compare it to similar "professional" CMS solutions, and it's actually a steal!
  4. DNN Corp absolutely SUCKS at communication since the first round of VC funding.  Everything is a secret now, so the entire community cannot express concerns or opinions, but are rather subjected to having to react to news.  The main problem is that there used to be transparency, making the community feel like "part of the family."  I understand the need for some secrecy, but you have to admit, the current plan has not served you well thusfar, DNN Corp.
  5. There are some very broad reactions and opinions here, and none are wrong - but like politics, we have to all meet in the middle, accept change, and make the best of it.  Unfortunately, that change will always alienate and may even permanently deter someone, or groups of someones.  Such is life.  Who knows?  Maybe I will be one of those in the future...  Maybe you.  Change doesn't always keep everyone in the same company, school, neighborhood, or even software community.  Things simply change.
  6. I have steered clear of the forums for months due to a very vocal and negative minority of people that now traverse the DNN forums.  (You know who you are. No need to reply. Just leave it be.)  I am very encouraged to see that the negativity has not stained this very important dialogue in this thread.  There instead has been discourse!  WIN!  {happy dance}
  7. PLEASE DNN Corp!  Follow Chris Chodnicki's roadmap.  It is exactly the formula to re-gain community trust, support, evangelism, and will also bleed back into the core module projects.  Most importantly, it will breed positivity from even the darkest of news, as we will not feel like outsiders as community members.
  8. Someone mentioned Microsoft earlier in the thread (a few times).  They for a long time had an image problem, not so different from what's happening with DNN Corp.  However, they turned the leaf by embracing the community to be its lifeline through things like the MVP Program, Evangelists, and user group support programs.  I happen to know that DNN Corp has some of these same goals, but who else knows this?  Let's refer back to Chris's communication suggestions, shall we?  ;)
  9. The only thing that I could add to Chris's list is this:  When DNN Corp does say something, say it in a way that doesn't cause more questions to be raised.  In my opinion, the only person who does a decent job at this so far is Shaun Walker.  I really enjoy it when his posts and blogs pop up.  Don't worry Joe.  I still think you're the coolest Navy guy that...  Well, never mind.  That just nullified anything nice I could say! ;)

In the end, I don't fear the worst of the future of DNN, nor do I have the same concerns as some people due to my position in the community as a member and as someone who uses DNN on a variety of levels.  While it has become the main offering and cornerstone of my businesses and consulting work, I have to also say that these moves are encouraging for the future of all involved, despite some of the red flags that have appeared to many.

Do I agree that this looks bad?  Yes.  Do I agree that it's not been handled the way it should have been?  Yes.  However, I cannot help but think that we are all in a better position right now due to these and past decisions, and will continue to be that way.  If we could only get DNN Corp to unzip their lips a little more often, I am certain that more of you would be as positive about this as I am.  :)


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
New Post
3/30/2010 12:14 PM
 

While people may have valid concerns for the strategy and direction of DNN Corp over the last year or so, I feel I have to take issue with comments that imply that there has been little or no work on the Community Edition and our focus has been only on the Professional Edition.

As a senior developer within the Engineering group I can say without hesitation that 75-80% of our development efforts over the last 15 months have been focussed on CE, core features common to all products or Community efforts.

We currently have a team of ~8-10 developers, one of whom focusses on maintaining Snowcovered, one of whom (Chris Pattera) focusses full-time on building tools for the Community - Chris spent quite a lot of time over the last few weeks on the Skinning contest, and is currently working on developing better User Group tools. 

The rest of us work on the core product and I know that if I added up my hrs for the last 15 months, I have spent ~ 1month in total working on PE only features.  Half of our team spend most of their time triagiing and working on Gemini issues (primarily those that exist in CE) and half of our team work on new feature development again primarily on CE features.


Charles Nurse
Chief Architect
Evoq Content Team Lead,
DNN Corp.

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New Post
3/30/2010 12:29 PM
 
One thing that this discussion has shown is that there is a lot of passion behind DNN. 84 Replies and over 4500 views on this thread. The other thing that it shows (and was mentioned in a number of replies) is the need for more communication from the Corp. (It has been a little better the past month or so but not quite what is needed) As a start, I would like to see some conference calls / forums that are open to everyone. Let's get the flow of information moving both ways again. Robert
 
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