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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?
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3/30/2010 2:06 PM
 
Nina Meiers wrote:
I can also see that by no signficant comment except by one employee (thanks Chris) this also reflects the lack of consultation / care... call it what you like to those who have contributed close on 7 years of their time to help this be what it is today, whithout any of the rewards that the Nik, Shaun, Scott and Joe are enjoying.

Just catching up.  I have been away for 9 days on emergency family business... life does continue for us all, even apart from DotNetNuke.  I have a number of heartfelt replies for this Community that we have shared in and personally invested in for so many years.  I appreciate every comment.


Scott Willhite, Co-Founder DNN

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. "
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 
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3/30/2010 2:34 PM
 
Lars Tungen wrote:

So this is what we have become. A bunch of scared to death chickens running around reading press releases from the corporation trying to figure out if they still want our eggs or if they're having our filèt and wings for dinner tomorrow. Our worries are well founded, because remember this:

The corporation is only one board meeting away from doing something really stupid.

Thats how fragile this ecosystem has become. This is your wakeup call. If the PE introduction didn't scare you, or you really thought that proprietary Telerik components in what used to be the open source version was a gift from heaven, then please think again:

The main strategy for the corporation is to sell the PE version.   

Thats what paying the bills, and more importantly, thats what the investors came for. The community version is supposed to be the entry level product and the PE is the natural upgrade for serious use. The tactics to implement this strategy are quite simple:

Take control of the community and use it to sell the PE version.

So how is the community controlled?

  1. Owning Snowcovered.
  2. Introducing proprietary licensed components to the "open core" (Teleriks) where it's use are governed with an agreement between the two corporations.
  3. Refusing necessary tools for the community on the main site.
  4. Slowing down the development of the free and open "core modules and providers".

If you don't believe me, consider this: Does it take 3 years to setup a wiki? No, but it may take 3 years for a corporation to decide if it will profit or hurt the PE version. I don't think it's a coincidence that the corporation is not looking for volunteers to help out with the community extensions. For an open source project that is down right suspicious. They want to do everything themselves so they can control it and make sure the CE-PE gap is inline with the overall strategy. The only community activity that is getting all the attention from the corporation are the user groups. Their purpose being sending users off to the annual event so that someone from HQ can visit and pitch the PE version.

If this is allowed to continue the CE-PE gap will continue to expand until the CE has found it's proper position as the entry level product only usable for the small and low traffic sites. In the coming months and years we will see that the PE version will replace all modules and extensions shared with the CE version. In the end they will only share the "open core" which amounts to nothing from the end users perspective. The long term effect of this, is that companies that are willing to spend some serious dollar on DotNetNuke will do it by utilizing the PE version. 

So how do we fix this?

We need to setup an independent and open community taking responsibility for core modules and extensions for the open source version of DotNetNuke. It's as simple and hard as that. We also need a competing marketplace to Snowcovered. It doesn't have to take 50% of the market to be important. It's mere existence would make it important. Ready to take over if the corporation screw up Snowcovered.

One way to get this started is to fix one thing at a time. Fixing the search engine. Create a distributed cache. Replace some rotten core modules with new solid quality ones. Improved file uploader. Lot's of interesting tasks to do. While the corporation are "looking into things".  

 

    

 

 

 

- AFAIK, module developers can sell on SC just like before the acquisition. The corp does not refuse any modules whether competing with their own or not. This is not like Apple's app store. You can always sell your module on your own site. SC doesn't control the community. Sure, you will have less visibility if you sell your module on your own store instead of on SC.

- There are thousands of modules on SC and you can develop your own for the CE version without any restrictions, technically or otherwise.

- If you want a feature that's not included in the CE version, get a module which can do it. You can easily bypass the PE version. There's no arm twisting. - There was no guarantee that the exclusive features in the current PE version were ever going to be developed based on volunteer work if the corp hadn't gotten extra money. Those features could be a direct result from paying for developers.

- Telerik components are extra components which add functionality. They don't replace current ones. It seems they are even free for DNN module developers. Shaun

in one post mentioned they might include the provider for the RadEditor. You can still CFKEditor (CKEditor) as usual.

- "Slowing down the development of the free and open "core modules and providers". How is this true if the PE & CE versions are based on the same core and they include many same modules which are free? - Maybe the corp didn't think a wiki is a priority. When you start a startup, maybe a wiki is not at the top of the TO DO list. Plus anyone is more than welcome to get a free wiki engine like Screw Turn, set up a site and invite people to contribute. Personally when I see a community of 700,000 users and the pity amount of volunteer work, I know something is wrong. Proportionally, the DNN user community is not as generous compared with other similar user communities like WordPress.

- There's no correlation between amount of traffic and DNN version. You can build very popular sites with wither version. There's nothing in the CE version which prohibits you from building a very successful site. There are no technical limits like throttling or anything. Maybe you will hit some performance issues but that's DNN core (affects both CE & PE) or ASP.NET related in general.

 

- You can preach about having another SnowCovered or free modules or whatever. As long as CE users are happy with the product in general and there are tons of modules and skins to choose from, the users will just march by and go their own way. CE's curve (new features + better reliablity) over time is going up. it's not horizontal or going down. Some people are thinking hard about conspiracy theories.

 
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3/30/2010 2:54 PM
 
Charles Nurse wrote:
Jan, what you say is true - all work done on CE benefits PE, but what I was trying to say is that 75%-80% of work being done today benefits CE (only 20-25% is purely PE). In the last 15 months this means approximately 6 Full-time developer resources are committed to CE work - compared with 1 (me) prior to funding.
 
Of course, we are much,much better off with 6 developers instead of one, but... With the community in mind, I would like to see some serious roadmap planning. When I evaluate the roadmap page and e.g. look at the new features deliverd in 5.3., the latter are probably somewhere on the list, but not on the first 3 pages. For me the improvements in 5.3 where a big surprise, never heard of the necessity for a messaging feature (excuse my ignorance), but pleasantly surprised with the image propertytype (this was on my personal wish list for a long time). I think CE improvements should follow the wishes of the community a bit better (again communication and interaction).
Again, appreciating all you guys contributions and hard work,
Peter

 


Peter Schotman
Cestus Websites voor DotNetNuke oplossingen in Nederland
Contact us for your custom design and skinning work.
 
New Post
3/30/2010 3:47 PM
 
Tony Hussein wrote:

There was no guarantee that the exclusive features in the current PE version were ever going to be developed based on volunteer work if the corp hadn't gotten extra money. Those features could be a direct result from paying for developers.

I have never complained about the corporation adding value to their products. My concern is that they prevent the community in adding value to the CE product.

Tony Hussein wrote:

- Telerik components are extra components which add functionality. They don't replace current ones. It seems they are even free for DNN module developers. Shaun

in one post mentioned they might include the provider for the RadEditor. You can still CFKEditor (CKEditor) as usual.

DotNetNuke used to be an open source project, The introduction of proprietary components limits what you can do with the code. You are not allowed to use the Teleriks in your extensions unless you access them through the wrappers provided by the corporation or acquire your own license from Telerik. The freedom to do what you want with code is being taken away step by step and nobody seems to care.

Tony Hussein wrote:

- "Slowing down the development of the free and open "core modules and providers". How is this true if the PE & CE versions are based on the same core and they include many same modules which are free? - Maybe the corp didn't think a wiki is a priority. When you start a startup, maybe a wiki is not at the top of the TO DO list. Plus anyone is more than welcome to get a free wiki engine like Screw Turn, set up a site and invite people to contribute. Personally when I see a community of 700,000 users and the pity amount of volunteer work, I know something is wrong. Proportionally, the DNN user community is not as generous compared with other similar user communities like WordPress.

This project is practically closed for community contributions other than bug reports and testresults. Many of the teams responsible for core modules are no longer working on the project. I have full understanding of people not being able to contribute. But they are not being replaced by someone who can. Thats my complaint.

Tony Hussein wrote:

- There's no correlation between amount of traffic and DNN version. You can build very popular sites with wither version. There's nothing in the CE version which prohibits you from building a very successful site. There are no technical limits like throttling or anything. Maybe you will hit some performance issues but that's DNN core (affects both CE & PE) or ASP.NET related in general.

The last version of DotNetNuke CE to support webfarms was the 4.x series. The 5.x series can't scale beyond 1 webserver process unless you upgrade to PE or host with PowerDNN which have their own distributed caching provider. A distributed caching provider for the CE version to restore webfarm support for everyone would have been a nice community project I think.

Tony Hussein wrote:

- You can preach about having another SnowCovered or free modules or whatever. As long as CE users are happy with the product in general and there are tons of modules and skins to choose from, the users will just march by and go their own way. CE's curve (new features + better reliablity) over time is going up. it's not horizontal or going down. Some people are thinking hard about conspiracy theories.

I am not preaching conspiracy theories. If you think I have my facts wrong, please point them out and avoid resorting to personal attacks.

 
New Post
3/30/2010 4:04 PM
 

Lars Tungen wrote:

DotNetNuke used to be an open source project, The introduction of proprietary components limits what you can do with the code. You are not allowed to use the Teleriks in your extensions unless you access them through the wrappers provided by the corporation or acquire your own license from Telerik. The freedom to do what you want with code is being taken away step by step and nobody seems to care.

I am not sure that you really have a point here.

Personally, I would advise against using the Telerik controls, outside of the menu system.  I have much better results in numerous ways using jQuery-based solutions over component vendors.  However, there are many options outside of the telerik controls. No one is required to use them, develop with them, or anything else.  DNN Corp simply stuck a deal to be able to offer it up as one of many options open to module and skin developers.  For those of us who have been in the community for a long enough time, this has been talked about over and over for several years.  Even though I don't jump at the chance to use Telerik, I am a HUGE fan of their control suite, and I am happy to have it as another tool in my toolbox, should I choose to do so.  I just so happen to own a developer license.


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
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