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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?So why is DNN Corp Purchase of OpenDNN a good thing?
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3/30/2010 5:00 PM
 
Jan Olsmar wrote:

Ok lets talk facts just facts.

The licence from DotNetNuke let me do whatever I want.

The licence from Telrik tells me..

You may distribute the TELERIK Software to third parties but only (i) within the Instance of the DNN Software with which the TELERIK Software was received by you and (ii) pursuant to the terms of this LICENSE. An ―Instance‖ is a discrete copy of such DNN Software, paired with an underlying web server, written to and operating with its own discrete and dedicated system memory.

In no event may the TELERIK Software be distributed, transferred, rented, leased or sublicensed on a stand-alone basis or as part of any other packaged solution other than the Instance of the applicable DNN Software product with which the TELERIK Software was distributed to you. The TELERIK Software may only be distributed, transferred, rented, leased or sublicensed as long as it is embedded and/or combined with the applicable DNN Software product with which the TELERIK Software was distributed to you.

Maybe you are interpreting this differently than I am, but as I read this, I see:

  • You may redistribute the telerik software within the original DNN instance it came with
  • You may not redistribute the telerik software any other way

Not sure how that restricts you.


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
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3/30/2010 5:01 PM
 

Im sort of a newbie to this project, and was hoping to contribute a module or two down the road for free to help a community that is helping me. And if I was in charge of DNN I would offer the PE edition with added support and few other "hosting" features, however through those funds collected taking a portion of them to buy these module rights FOR the CE to show the community that buying the DNN PE supports the community in a huge way. This would have a lot more positive public relations, however like any project or company as they get bigger they get more aggressive to control more of a market. I believe if people see a "greedy" side of any open source project they will turn to support one this is not. Great application I hope all of this turns out for the better and for the community. It would be great to see a full line of modules available to the community that are top notch, open source and free. I am an old school php programmer, DNN is slow loading compared to php ran sites however DNN is powerful at the same time. It is a trade off I am debating, and I thought that this project was a savior to ASP.NET having an open source project like this. Now I am more involved with .NET programming than ever before. But a lot of issues still need worked out with the modules that are offered with it. Still dotnetnuke it is a rip off from http://phpnuke.org/ however I think you are losing ground if you want to be greedy, there is no PE of phpnuke it is all open source community driven. A lot of free mods to boot...

 
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3/30/2010 5:09 PM
 

Will, if I change just a few lines in the code its not the same product as I recived from DNN.

Just ask a legal expert. It can sound redicoulus but but its the way it will be interpreted in the court.

 
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3/30/2010 5:14 PM
 

Forgive me, there are a number of thoughts to reply to and so I am going to start replying to them in individual posts.  Ideally, we will branch these into other threads as they become clearer conversations apart from this thread.

Lars, I have appreciated many of your comments and hope that you don't mind that I use some of them to respond to the subjects at hand.  My responses are for everyone, but I will play off of your comments as context.

Lars Tungen wrote:
Tony Hussein wrote:

There was no guarantee that the exclusive features in the current PE version were ever going to be developed based on volunteer work if the corp hadn't gotten extra money. Those features could be a direct result from paying for developers.

I have never complained about the corporation adding value to their products. My concern is that they prevent the community in adding value to the CE product.

The DotNetNuke Open Core is developed today almost exactly the same way it has been since Shaun first created it.  It is a misconception that things are more "closed" than they were before, if anything... it is actually a bit more open.  We didn't even have a shared source code reposibtory until we introduced the Vault around the time we were developing version 3.  And at that point, many people were participating (people who are still on the team today) as aspects of the changes in v3 were "bulk" in nature (eg. creating and testing the data access layer, etc).  Other items that folks participated in were from various skinning prototypes, none of which were actually used, but which ultimately came together in a unified solution.  Trustees on the team had and still have access to the core source code, they still do fix bugs based on community feedback from Gemini, etc.  Today we actually have our source code exposed on Codeplex and are continuously improving our ability to keep that fresh (it is stable code, not the unstable dev tip).  Accepting code contribution through Gemini has become easier as the product has improved (we've been Gemini users since v1.0).  I could say more, but trying to keep it brief.
 
We actually work very hard at accepting contribution from the Community for CE.  I believe we have improved on our ability and success at that a bit (even it it is not as visible as it should be, different subject).  I know we continue to work on imroving it.  For example, Gemini is better managed and responded to now than ever before in our history... and that comes with commitment from the company to keep engineers engaged and responsive to the activity in the issue tracker.
 
The other aspect of "adding value to CE" is simply through extensions.  The company adds value to PE in the same way.  Simple things like the skinning contest which have just added 25 new open source skinning projects testify to how easy it is for people to add value to CE.  The skinning contest is an example of us needing to help people (who are inclined) do that.  We're now working with those vendors to help teach them source control, new packaging techniques, etc.  They're interested in being more involved.  You're going to see a lot more of that this year.  But I hope you also have some understanding of how many corporate hours (in addition to team hours) have been devoted to making that happen and continuing its momentum.  None of this is even possible without successful commercial operations to fund it.
 
Roadmap and product development dicussions I must leave with Shaun but I can say that our own internal processes are starting to mature, which makes room for enhancing them.  We've been pretty good about publishing community beta's and taking feedback downstream.  I must tell you that we don't get as much feedback as you might think... but we do it anyway because its the right thing to do.  I do expect community involvement to occur more upstream over time (and it does have impact in terms of surveys, Gemini, forums, etc), but it is challenging.  A challenge we could easily dismiss... but instead choose to engage and address.

Scott Willhite, Co-Founder DNN

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. "
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 
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3/30/2010 5:21 PM
 
Sebastian Leupold wrote:
Peter Donker wrote:

If you do not address the Telerik namespace directly you're safe. The framework will provide wrappers that are available to anyone.

On another note: I don't get the "they're taking it away from us" regarding Telerik. Telerik was added and so are the wrappers. You still can (and I do) use your own controls. Nothing's stopping you.

Peter

Peter, I am not sure, if this license applies even for a custom build of DNN, if using a different name (with regards to MIT license, DNN is based on, of course).

EDIT: oops, it looks like Jan already provided the answer to this question.

 OK, so we have two issues to distinguish: (1) are you able to redistribute DNN and (2) can you make a module that incorporates Telerik controls and distribute that? I'd be surprised if the first one is no. The license mentioned by Jan seems to support that. It looks like they tried very hard to say: you can redistribute DNN with the Telerik dll, but you can't take the Telerik dll out and use it for something else. So about nr 2. I stand by my earlier comment that if you only use DotNetNuke namespaces you can never be held responsible for anything as you're abstracted from the controls. I can't see how Telerik could sue you when your code doesn't even address their code. And I believe this is exactly why wrappers are being made. So that you can leverage some of this stuff in your modules.
 
Peter
 
PS Don't you just love threads that have over 100 replies and wander all over the place ...

Peter Donker
Bring2mind http://www.bring2mind.net
Home of the Document Exchange,
the professional document management solution for DNN
 
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