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HomeHomeGetting StartedGetting StartedInstalling DNN ...Installing DNN ...Is this acceptable for upgrading to a major version?Is this acceptable for upgrading to a major version?
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8/10/2011 11:33 AM
 
Thank you Rod and Steven for your support. Some additional factors I'd like to throw into the mix.
  • I've seen a number of comments implying that an upgrade utility might be valuable for the "less technical". I agree with that. I shake my head when I see references to web.config, modules, config files, etc - what must the less technical think when they see that. However, I'd like to point out that an upgrade utility is every bit as useful for the more technically proficient. For example, I consider myself quite technical. I've used ASP.Net since 1.0 (anyone remember Visual Interdev? :)), have a web site build on server-side functionality using C#, pretty comfortable with SQL Server, etc, etc. But what I DON'T do is play with DNN "just for the heck of it". IN contrast to the "upgrades are easy" crowd, I change DNN configuration only when I need to do so not on a regular basis. An upgrade utility can embed DNN-specific knowledge of the upgrade "environment" and free me from having to worry about that. That's beneficial regardless of whether I CAN understand these concepts - I don't want to have to understand them!
  • An interesting side story. I previously purchased and used Telligent Community Server. What a nightmare from an upgrade perspective! Yes, it was pretty rich functionally but what really, really caught my attention - in a very negative way - was the manual and fragile set of steps necessary with every upgrade. I have no idea whether Telligent eventually saw the light - but I can say without qualification that the lack of a robust, mature upgrade tool/process was a direct and primary reason I dumped that platform. Oh - and by the way - I had a support contract there and was regular told "Hey, this is easy - just copy these files, play with this config file, etc, etc". I truly hope someone at DNN can step back a little. This last week has taken me from a very strong supporter to someone who will continue to use DNN - but is jaded and is now open to the idea of alternatives. All for the sake of an upgrade tool.
  • That said, I do "care" about DNN. But I see a significant indifference to there being a problem here - which, as a paying customer, is not good at all.

Joe (Binkman), I truly appreciate you chiming into the thread. Given all you have read here, the technical issues a few of us have faced, the "voice of the customer" (I guess we're complaining that manual upgrades are not good enough) and the fact that your own support professional (and a very qualified one) took 1 1/4 hours to figure out my problem, I'd be interested if there are any alarm bells going off here. Or is the impression that it's still easy (which, frankly, comes across as an implication that I'm the problem not the software :)).

Thanks for listening.

Mark

 
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8/10/2011 12:45 PM
 
Westa you make a great point about configuration management. I completely agree with the incremental approach but the true power of DNN (it's ability to be sue easily and inexpensively extended) is also it's downfall. I'm sure we've all experienced modules that introduced breaking changes or impacted performance or prevented smooth upgrades.

The challenge you pointed out is a very real one for implementors and admins alike; as modules get installed and things change the "easy" upgrade is not longer a reality. It's important for DNN Corp to understand how things actually go in the field rather than the lab.


Steven Webster
Manager, Community Platform
F5 Networks, DevCentral
 
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8/15/2011 2:52 AM
 
Joe (Binkman), I truly appreciate you chiming into the thread. Given all you have read here, the technical issues a few of us have faced, the "voice of the customer" (I guess we're complaining that manual upgrades are not good enough) and the fact that your own support professional (and a very qualified one) took 1 1/4 hours to figure out my problem, I'd be interested if there are any alarm bells going off here. Or is the impression that it's still easy (which, frankly, comes across as an implication that I'm the problem not the software :)).

These days I host and use PowerDNN and I thoroughly recommend them for all things DNN.  Top notch support which is responsive.  I also use their upgrade service now to do the upgrades which I've used several times now.  Each time I've been billed a minimum of 2 hours work for the upgrades.  Some times it's been more.

It's noteworthy that a premier DNN hosting company that probably does hundreds of these upgrades takes a minimum of 2 hours to do it.  The point I'm making here is that correctly upgrading DNN takes hours, not minutes....probably more if you're not PowerDNN.

 
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8/15/2011 6:20 AM
 
Seriously - your not upgrading notepad here - dnn is an incredibly complex application system and framework - and the myriad of possible combinations of modules, providers, skins, containers and site can have installed mean each upgrade happens on a case by case basis.

BUT regardless - on any of my clean well maintained sites - that is sites that had been kept up to date - the 5.6.3 to 6.0.0 upgrade itself took about 15minutes - most of which time was devoted to running backups.

The only site we had issues with was, one site that had a weird custom menu skin object - it needed a new module downloaded from the skin developer to fix its issues.

Westa
 
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HomeHomeGetting StartedGetting StartedInstalling DNN ...Installing DNN ...Is this acceptable for upgrading to a major version?Is this acceptable for upgrading to a major version?


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