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Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

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HomeHomeFuture Developm...Future Developm...DNN neXtDNN neXtSo this is the end of the web forms and other questions?So this is the end of the web forms and other questions?
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1/26/2015 3:59 PM
 

Mark,

  I think there are a couple good points in your post that deserve comment:

1. I think it is important for everyone to understand that the way DNN Platform is governed and developed has fundamentally changed from what it was in the past.  Today the platform is being developed as a community effort.  While DNN Corp is still involved and provides some guidance and management, this is not something that happens in a vacuum.  The community, through the community steering group, the community working groups, and through these forums provides input on how we should move forward.  In addition, the community is actively engaged in implementing the features and functionality for each release along with contributions from DNN Corp.  DNN Corp still participates in this process as a member of the community, but we are just one of many sets of stakeholders who are involved in delivering a Platform which addresses the communities needs.

2. There are times in every products life cycle when you have to consider breaking backwards compatibility in order to make significant technological advances.  We have had 10 years of relative stability with few intentional breaking changes.  The reality is that the way people are developing for the web today is very different from how we built web apps 10 or 15 years ago.  In addition, Microsoft has itself realized that the current ASP.Net platform needed a major overhaul in order to stay relevant in today's web development world.  We could ignore all of this and continue iterating on DNN as we have been, or we can make some difficult choices and build a DNN Platform that is better suited for modern web development.

3. Ultimately, there are two groups within the DNN community: those that are happy and wish to continue with the current platform, and those who are looking to lead the charge onto the new ASP.Net 5 platform.  Those that wish to stay on the current 7.x code base are free to do so.  The 7.x codebase will continue to be viable for as long as there is a community of developers who are willing to contribute to maintaining and enhancing the codebase.  Those that wish to make the jump to ASP.Net 5 will likewise need to assist in the development efforts as we look to get this version of DNN off the ground.  DNN Corp will be contributing development effort to both platforms, however it will take the work of more than just ourselves to make this work. While DNN Corp's primary development effort will focus on DNN neXt, we will continue to provide fixes and enhancements to the current platform for a few more years so that people are not forced to migrate to a new platform immediately.  This is very similar to what we did with the DNN 3 and DNN 4 platforms.

4. There is no documentation yet for DNN neXt as there is no code yet for DNN neXt.  We are many months away from having anything even remotely resembling production code and at least 3 or more months from having even Alpha level code.  While Microsoft has released Beta 2 of ASP.Net 5, they are still a long ways from being feature complete which ultimately impacts how quickly we can move forward. 

Part of the reason I created this forum group is so that we can have these discussions in the open and that everyone can see what is going on even as we begin work on DNN 7.5.0 and DNN neXt.  I know that this is a stressful time for everyone, but I also know that if we pull together as a community, that we can provide a strong foundation for people wishing to stay on the current WebForms platform even while others choose to jump onboard an MVC based platform.


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
New Post
1/29/2015 4:20 AM
 

I say module developers should not worry about DNN vNext yet. It's too early. vNext might take a a few YEARS before it's production ready. Why worry about something that's that far off. Even when it's ready, it's not like everyone is going to switch to it quickly especially when they notice there are very few mature modules and themes built for it. So add a time period for enough sites that will switch to it on top of when DNN vNext is ready. So when there are no docs yet available, you know it's too early. There are sites still using DNN 6.x and earlier when 7.x has been out for almost two years. Plus the fact DNN 7.x is staying alongside DNN vNext for the foreseeable future.

This reminds me last month when the AngularJS team announced that the new upcoming version 2.0 is a complete rewrite and there was an uproar among the Angular community. Should everyone now abandon the current Angular if it may seem it's going to be obsolete? There are a ton of development still going on using the current Angular framework. Lots of jobs asking for the skill, lots of books and video tutorials. If it works now and it's actively being maintained and enhanced, why worry about the future.

I am at the early stages of creating a module and I am pretending I have never heard of vNext. My other option is to wait till vNext is ready and that doesn't make sense. It's valuable time that will be lost.
 
New Post
1/29/2015 11:51 AM
 

Of note, there are currently several ways to build SPA style modules with WebAPI + Angular on the DNN platform.  We haven't built a web forms module since DNN 6.2 and the ServicesFramework were released.

If you want to be future ready, work towards converting your module using something like Chris Hammond's module template (http://christoctemplate.codeplex.com/) which includes the basic structure you need to build something in Angular with WebAPI.  Then when the next version of 7 is released with full support for SPA modules, convert to that (which probably won't be very hard with most of your presentation code in Angular, and your Business/DB layer in WebAPI controllers and other objects).  Then when DNN vNext is ready you should have a clear migration/update path once again.

Front end code talking to back end services, call it MVC, SPA, MVVM, MVM, etc. is here to stay.  If you haven't already made the swap, time to do what we do best as programmers and adapt.  Specific vendors may not be ready, but there are already those that are.  I know DNNSharp is mostly Angular and does everything Ventrian does.  CartViper might have work to do, but I believe HotCakes is also already Angular based. I don't have to tell those that aren't they need to adapt or die, they know it and I am sure will have great versions ready soon.

Imagine a world where talented module vendors build great API layers, and we are free to leverage those APIs using their front ends, or custom front ends of our own creation.  

I am glad DNN is ahead of the curve this time. It is our job to do what we can now, and be ready for the upcoming changes.

This is all great news.

 
New Post
1/30/2015 10:27 AM
 
Brad Murray wrote:

CartViper might have work to do, but I believe HotCakes is also already Angular based. 

Just a minor point of clarification... Hotcakes is not Angular-based.  

We are already using something similar to what ASPNet vNext and DNN vNext will have though (as far as we know so far), which is the best of both worlds.  Our back-end is running web forms and our front end is running MVC Razor.  

This makes it easy to not only support SPA approaches (several of our views are using KnockoutMVC, we prefer this over Angular for MANY reasons), but it also puts us in an incredibly good position to support DNN vNext and ASPNet vNext very easily.  Our existing customers should have a little less to worry about in that regard.


Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
New Post
1/30/2015 3:56 PM
 
I'm actually really looking forward to this change. I'm definitely not as strong with MVC/MVVM patterns as I am with WebForms, and so I know there will be some learning pains... But, the DNN team has a solid history of really thinking this stuff out and doing things conservatively and intelligently. I trust this will be the same.

There are many opportunities here. In terms of categories of complaints I hear about DNN, the UI and skinning issues are probably the most frustrating and fair. DNN is very nice structurally and I like its approach/model for content creation and management better than any other CMS I've tried. But, too often it feels like you're fighting the core to get some UI element the way you want it. Taking DNN's strengths and placing them in an environment with more modern design patterns could easily make it the best CMS out there. I'm sure that won't happen easily or without issue... but, I think it's an exciting time.
 
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HomeHomeFuture Developm...Future Developm...DNN neXtDNN neXtSo this is the end of the web forms and other questions?So this is the end of the web forms and other questions?


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