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HomeHomeArchived Discus...Archived Discus...Developing Under Previous Versions of .NETDeveloping Under Previous Versions of .NETASP.Net 2.0ASP.Net 2.0Problems upgrading my module from dnn3.x to dnn4.xProblems upgrading my module from dnn3.x to dnn4.x
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2/3/2007 4:07 PM
 
Vladan Strigo wrote

 

- How many developers have worked on FotoVision (not sequentally, but parallel)?
- How much man hours was spent on the complete project?
- Which methods of architecture did you use besides standard DNN ones?
- Which additional architectural solutions did you implement in the solution?
- Which methods for testing did you use (Unit tests, TDD...)?
- What was the avreage build time of your solution?

  • One at a time
  • Hundreds. Over 6 developers have worked on this project over the years
  • The code was originally not a DotNetNuke module
  • The code also uses web services and Winforms
  • No unit tests
  • It is not necessary to build, just save the page and refresh the web browser, the runtime recognizes the change and re compiles only the assemblies needed. This takes about 5-10 seconds.


Michael Washington
http://ADefWebserver.com
www.ADefHelpDesk.com
A Free Open Source DotNetNuke Help Desk Module
 
New Post
2/3/2007 4:46 PM
 

Ok, then to ask you like this.... since your work on the project (not someone elses, in other enviroments, at other times)...

  • How many hours were spent on this module (one module - only your work)?
  • Why does it take 5-10 seconds to build (precompile it, sorry) a module of 4 controls and 10-15 classes? Don't you think that that is slow?
  • How much time do you think it would take you to start up a module solution comprised of ~15 modules, each with 2-3 controls (view, edit, settings) in this slow enviroment (along with DotNetNuke which is big enough on it's own in the same solution)?

One more thing, please don't compare FotoVision application to a big (or even medium) module solution, as that is not it.... it is an application built completly independently of DNN (probably the developers which built didn't even know what DNN was), which has one module which acts like a viewer (if I understood right what I glimpsed in the source) - which was built completly independently.

 


Thanks,
Vladan Strigo
NETMedia

My website: Vladan.Strigo.NET

Vladan.Strigo.NET: Projects
* Advanced VS2005 development approach - BlankModule
* DNN & Microsoft Ajax best practices guidance

Vladan.Strigo.NET: Resources
* Comprehensive list of DNN 4 Module development resources

 
New Post
2/3/2007 6:45 PM
 
Vladan Strigo wrote

As for the beginners... I agree that not having to write your own data provider projects is a nice touch (actually when you've mentioned the idea some time ago on the asp.net forums it sounded really nice to me), not having to use IIS is also a nice touch... but for me things like that are of short term... simply because you start as a beginner (I did for DNN a few years ago on DNN 1.x and it was a pain to start developing.... although even then I was an experienced asp.net developer), and at that time things you mentioned are GREAT, but soon after you raise above the beginner level, those things become obsolete because you start thinking about smarter ways to write OO code, smarter ways to test the code, etc... then you come to O/R mappers, REAL code generation, real OO code practices, services, DDD design, etc... as well as wanting to have a FAST development enviroment that doesn't burden you with projects you don't need....

On the other hand, I agree that if you want to build a small solution (e.g. Guestbook) the practices you advise are quite enough, quite good, VERY easy to follow, and especially EASY to start with... that's why I am glad that there is a person like you who helps people get to a higher ground and start developing modules.


Cheers!



I have to agree with you on this. I'm an experienced .net developer with limited experience with DNN. I'm working on a complex DNN module, using NHibernate, Windsor IOC and some other best practices like Open Session in View, Generic Data Access Objects, which are popular in Java community but not in .NET. While I appreciate the core teams hard work and like a lot of features in DNN, there is much to be done to make DNN a really good web applcation framework. The support for large-scale enterprise application development is lacking.

Once again, thank you to core team for their hard work and Vladan for sharing your work on DNN WAP.

Frank

 
New Post
2/3/2007 8:27 PM
 

I am also a professional programmer who uses WAP 8 hours a day (I have to at work). We can all agree that WAP is great. I  recommend the dynamic compilation method because it is easier. it has less steps. Every configuration step a person has to make is a potential stumbling block.

Do you believe me when I say that I have talked to over 100 ASP.NET programmers about DotNetNuke and over half of them has tried to make a DotNetNuke module and only 3 have done it before we made the changes in the past 2 years?

You can convert the entire DotNetNuke core to be one big dynamic module and it will run just the same. We could use the Visual Studio Team System and have 100 developer's working on it. The only reason we don't do it is the same reason we don't convert to C#. The end product would be just the same.

What is there to be gained by insisting the method I am advocating does not work for large projects? 

 



Michael Washington
http://ADefWebserver.com
www.ADefHelpDesk.com
A Free Open Source DotNetNuke Help Desk Module
 
New Post
2/3/2007 9:06 PM
 
AdefWebserver wrote

I am also a professional programmer who uses WAP 8 hours a day (I have to at work). We can all agree that WAP is great. I  recommend the dynamic compilation method because it is easier. it has less steps. Every configuration step a person has to make is a potential stumbling block.

Do you believe me when I say that I have talked to over 100 ASP.NET programmers about DotNetNuke and over half of them has tried to make a DotNetNuke module and only 3 have done it before we made the changes in the past 2 years?

You can convert the entire DotNetNuke core to be one big dynamic module and it will run just the same. We could use the Visual Studio Team System and have 100 developer's working on it. The only reason we don't do it is the same reason we don't convert to C#. The end product would be just the same.

What is there to be gained by insisting the method I am advocating does not work for large projects? 

 

Ok first I think we got a little of base here... :) If I look back at the posts, the whole discussion sounds kind of funny :) At the end people will choose what suits them best.

Now...

I believe you completely about that half of developers... I was one of them a few years back struggling with DNN and my development first steps... As mentioned above, I really am happy that you provide guidance you are providing.... believe me, it's great!

The whole point of my struggle generally is to show you and others that there are more advanced users out there, and that some focus should be given to them as well. Because as much as those half people are happy with the way you advise to develop modules, the other half are sometimes on "scared" away because they think that what you advise is all there is - and that that is the limit of DNN (which is not true).

Also, my point is not about WAP, nor dynamic compilation, nor converting DNN to be dynamic compilation based... I personally think (although I don't say it much because I don't have the concrete numbers) that standard compilation is faster for internal development... but in the end it comes down how you structure your solution more than which type of project you put in (my preference as you know is WAP + IIS for the personally fastest dev. experience).

My complete point of this conversation was not to say that your method was bad (sorry if it turned up like that)... only that for larger projects (in my personal experience and the experience of the people who are using my approach) there is a faster and more productive alternative, and that the biggest difference is often shown to people who work on bigger module solutions.

Although I am tempted to say that if you only move DNN core from the solution that we would get the similar productivity gains, only in that case you automatically start thinking (at least I do) of WAP-like project and not Website one for the module itself.

What do you think? Shall we call it a truss?


Thanks,
Vladan Strigo
NETMedia

My website: Vladan.Strigo.NET

Vladan.Strigo.NET: Projects
* Advanced VS2005 development approach - BlankModule
* DNN & Microsoft Ajax best practices guidance

Vladan.Strigo.NET: Resources
* Comprehensive list of DNN 4 Module development resources

 
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