 |
|
|
 |
Joined: 6/3/2005
Posts: 2799
|
|
|
I've been watching this thread and there's a partial rant I have as well, though this is going to be a constructive post.
There are three types of audiences for DNN. The ASP.NET developer, the web designer/developer and the casual user. Currently, DNN does not fill the needs of any of the groups well, though some are better than others. Th ASP.NET developer is normally happy with DNN as a framework. With a few quirks in module development, it is a great development framework. But you need to get into the framework to make it behave the way you want, and ASP.NET developers aren't afraid of doing this. They may be working on a commercial add-on or simply a modified version of DNN for a specific site, and often there is a profit motive involved. This group wants core changes as soon as possible, especially changes like the recent addition of AJAX capabilities. They don't mind awkward interfaces, and what others find awkward they may find natural from a developer's point of view. They want technical documentation, not fru-fru information on CSS styling.
The second group, web developers/designers, aren't hard core coders. They can and do write code for their needs, but it's often presentation code. They want the DNN framework because it is skinnable and because it has the modules they happen to want for their site. They won't modify the core, or likely write modules, but the presentation layer is fair game and they'll dink with the CSS, XML and graphics until they get what they need. These people want detailed docs on skinning, HTML, editing the look and feel and all the skin objects and tokens. They want a background of how the modules and core function, and they want to know where files end up, how to use the interfaces to tweak their display and how to code the menu to navigate as they see fit.
The third group is a loosely related bunch of users, newbies, execs, wannabes and non-techies. They want DNN to be ready to run a site out of the box. Tweak a few settings, change some of the graphics, upload a skin and start working with content. They don't want to create skins or modules, they certainly don't want to dink around with code. They want to pick a background color from a color selection, not edit a CSS file. They just want to use the silly program to build they're site, and they want documentation that tells them which button to click to eliminate all the "instance not found" errors.
The DNN core team, as well as the project teams, are working to satisfy all these constituents but will never satisfy any of them. For one thing, the release method, while streamlined, sucks for a web developer and user. A new version of the core, or a needed module, seems to come out every few days. You're always upgrading, and upgrades always break something, even if it's just a change in the display code or adding a new option to a module. The changes are poorly documented, and usually only documented in forum posts. Security fixes which are critical are included in upgrades that change file pathing to meet the needs of an ASP.NET developer for a starter kit. Releases are not fully tested and vetted as a commercial software release would be, and many modules aren't updated to the new release, causing further problems. Modules are released at times that don't coincide with core changes, some have an almost annual release time frame and others are updated on a monthly basis. Third party developers don't match releases well either, perhaps a problem from both sides in communicating and testing releases.
Documentation sucks. Across the board. ASP.NET developer docs are found in blog posts and forums, web designer/developer docs lag far behind the releases and user docs are almost non-existent. DotNetNuke for Dummies is brand new and several versions out of date. Publishing lead times for books make them a useless way to find out anything about using DNN. Quality and content of the docs pretty much sucks as well. The skinning docs, possibly the most often read docs, use the same examples from years ago, mention none of the newer skin objects or tokens and are still written too poorly for someone new to DNN to pick them up instantly. Install docs should be drastically updated since the new wizard appeared, but they haven't been updated in a recent time period and are flat out wrong for many installs. Yes, the old docs still work, but the basics of my 20 year old owner's manual for the car I had five models ago still work too. Except my current ride has a CD player, anti-lock brakes, side airbags, sattelite radio and a dozen other things that didn't exist 20 years ago. Only when I got the new car it came with a new, complete owner's manual.
There's often a response to these arguments that "you get what you pay for" and it's true. Nobody would ever pay for DNN because it is incomplete and not a viable commercial product. Telligent's product, Community Server, is the model many expect DNN to follow. Even their personal version is complete out of the box, though limited. Telligent's release cycle is more on an annual basis, and the software is thoroughly tested and complete before release. Documentation and support is professional, something I'd bet DNN enthusiasts would pay for if it were available.
Is there a solution? I fear not. Some of the core team's moves have made it less likely that these issues can or will be fixed. Like it or not, DNN has grown beyond a hard-core developer's toy, and ASP.NET itself has grown easier for the unwashed masses to use. DNN isn't doomed if it doesn't start to satisfy a wider audience, but even PHPNuke is fairly easy to run a site out of the box when compared with DNN.
Here's hoping DNN matures ina better manner than in the past...
Jeff
|
| |
|
|
 | |
|
|
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 40
|
|
|
Hi Nina!
We spoke... Hmm, maybe a year or so back. Remember the "guy" making the enterprise eCommerce software?
Anyways... I guess I am not sure what you mean by "very enlightening"????
In response to Jeff (jeff@zina.com):
There are more than three audiences for DNN. The developer for DNN is either a hobbyist, trying to make some dough creating modules or someone who is creating web apps for other parties presumably getting paid. The customer for DNN is everyone from a webmaster to developers as well as hosting firms, businesses of many many forms as well.
"If" DNN Corp. has future commercial interests there are many many roads that may be taken. Some have more longevity than others. For example, businesses using DNN as a framework for Intranets may well use it for many many years and thus a licensing type arrangement is usually the best travelled path especially if one can lock those corporations into the software. Web Hosts licensing is a rather risky enterprise as they will go with whatever keeps them competitive, yields advantage over competitors and does not cause them grief. When hosting firms sell 1000 accounts that are DNN based and webmasters screetch at them about problems they will generally seek out an alternative preferably better. See, to them the customers wallet is what they care about and efficiency, the more per server the merrier. End users are the quick route to money. DNN as a web framework in a box where a consumer can pick it up off a shelf and make a very interactive community site and purchase additional functionality affordably. End users may be user groups, families, home businesses, small businesses on and on. This is the volume arena of sales and its where instant millionaire++ lay. A "user friendly DNN" will sell more at Walmart in a week then registrations to host providers will attain in months. Retailers are the area to cash. The cash can even be sustained if done right, publishers such as Corel, Adobe, Symantec etc. are experts at sustained product longevity in retail. With "Games" this doesnt fly as the shelf life is short but the sales are often brisk. World Of Warcraft's expansion sold 1.5 Million copies in 24 hours for example. DNN might even work as a general interactive gateway to MMOG's for example.
Every form of marketing is completely different. If one is going after corporations for longevity and expensive licensing then one needs to be EVER so careful at every step as those corporations tend to be quick to jump towards legal actions. ie: GM buys a license to use DNN for $200,000 a year. One day crashola', data is corrupted, security issue whatall its tracked back to xx application and they can (and often do) get restitution. You dont tend to read about it to much as it all takes place behind closed doors with settlements in the face of litgation which if such matters go public can (and again often do) result in other firms going at litigation. It can get real messy, ask Xerox :) The "Paperless Office" lost paper when I was there and MAN was it a litigation mess.
Any which way its cut when it comes to commercial interest in software the product need be solid. PC Games as an example have suffered for years due to people buy, bring home, doesnt work, goes back to store resulting in expense not profit. One might think well thats just a "no sale", uh uh. It costs money. You have manufacturing, packaging, the card processing fee's, shipping, shipping back to the distributor, accounting and then some. I can cite an example albeit years back and the expense (when I was doing things with Atari) was about $5.50 lost per unit that might be returned (whatever the reason). Now lets say 100,000 consumers return, we're at over half a million of loss. 100,000? Sure. Again, its big business. Electronic Arts is a multi-billion dollar entity for example. What can be written off as loss is, what can be liquidated is at least in PC Entertainment/edutainment software. You wont see Adobe for example liquidating returns or prior versions of Photshop. Liquidating such an item results in consumers going, "Why spend $600 for the latest greatest when I can buy the prior edition liquidated for $200". So, they destroy unsold/returned product or some places repackage for educational grant, gift, whatever to take the tax writeoff. Point being, they can afford to take the writeoff's.
If I were asked how to market DNN (given that it were specialized to commercial calibur) I'd say market to Retail. With that said, the specialization must TARGET that demographic. So, DNN makes deals with host firms. The user takes the CD from the box, slaps it in their PC. They can select a host provider (whom they will pay) from a drop down. The host provider upon connect automatically configures DNN. Bang done. Now to read the manual.
For Retail dumbification is important. Thus the software gets explained in human terms they can understand.
I'd seek a good publisher that has a good distributor as item must end up at Walmarts shelfs. Whether it appears at CompUSA, Target, BestBuy, CostCo on and on is topping on the cake, Walmart is an imperative. A "Good" publisher will have GOOD distributors thus ensuring good retail presence.
DNN developers (3P's) would no longer dance to their own beat. The addon's created 3P would be sold under DNN license, a royalty arrangement. Via key's created by DNN the modules could install into purchased copies of DNN. They could be supplied on CD, Downloaded or both, complete documentation, automatic updates etc. This ENSURES that the END CONSUMER is not going to lay down $50 for something that is trash as DNN Corp. is setting the standard by which modules will be acceptable to be authorized and indeed even used with the software. This is important as the last thing wanted is end users buying things that 1. Dont work/incompatible and 2. Dont destroy installed sites. Same with skins.
3P's would initially scream and yell about this especially those who create crapware and its understandable. They FEAR that such moves would result in damaging their position and may yell and yowl about "Well I've been a DNN supporter for 10 years and now THIS!!!!"... Well, I've been a Chevy guy for years but look... the world turns, money is money, commercial interest commercial interest etc. Thats reality. BUT! Reality TRULY is those who make great modules, skin packs and high quality stuff would see a TON more revenue then they will EVER see ANY other way. See, no corporation (if lets say it went that way) is going to say to Joe Programmer, "We want license your module". Uh Uh. They go to the company who made the software first, "We need a module that does this" and no smart company who is in such a position goes, "Buy this from this 3P". They either buyout said module or make their own (smart either way).
See... DNN can make your own uTube, DNN can make your own MySpace, DNN can make your own this/that, eCommerce store on and on and on... This can even be done as specialized packs. "Hmmm... I am at Staples, should I buy DNN Professional Edition or should I buy DNN eCommerce edition cuz if I do that I can always upgrade and the nice thing about the Commerce edition is it comes with these 100 templates so I can get to it quick after all... I want sell, not muck about with this software guff".
For Junior, well, Shawn's dialog in his book shows a HIGHLY viable example. His sons Soccer team, or even Soccer League! How many families or perhaps even the schools or coaches would just love such a thing? Shawn runs a league site as well as his sons team site. The other 15 teams in the league have their coaches have team sites too! And all we need do is drive to Walmart and for under $200 per team we are OFF and RUNNING and our children are seeing constructive use of the net! Whats that $10 per family whos child plays?
I am QUITE marketing savvy (though not as much as my wife) and DNN is a goldmine waiting to happen, of this I have no doubt.
From the millions (and millions) (and perhaps millions more) from a Retail release where I'd suspect the "wave" could be surfed for 2 years or so, that gives 2 years to create "DNN Nuclear XtREmE WeBrAD" (or as Bush says it, Nuckleer!) LOL. In other words, the next edition which can then take advantage of whats learned in the first as well as all the nifty new technologies that will come and the "growing up" of others.
See... I dont think many people "see" what this framework's possibilities really are. They see, "ooo blogs, ooo forums, ooo muttymedia, ooo eCommy web's, ooo helpdesk!". I see A WHOLE LOT more that makes this stuff look piddly poo. Thats not to say that piddly poo is to be ignored, not at all... It *IS* to say the frameworks overall possibilities are apparently not being part of the vision most people see. I do not know if the core see's it. ***AMMENDMENT EDIT : I GUARANTEE MICROSOFT SEE'S IT.
Ooo! Reality is there is an INFINITE Audience for DNN.
|
| |
|
|
| |