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HomeHomeUsing DNN Platf...Using DNN Platf...Skins, Themes, ...Skins, Themes, ...Recommendation for future DNN release: Remove dnn_ prefixRecommendation for future DNN release: Remove dnn_ prefix
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7/18/2010 9:22 AM
 

The more I come across it, the more it irritates me... I understand why it exists, but how necessary the injection of the "dnn_" prefix to all runat="server" ids is beyond me. The problem I have with it, is that this phenomenon requires skinners to add additional markup to skins to accommodate panes or use classes for everything as opposed to being able to target the IDs for styling.

I use IDs for a lot of my markup, as IDs are meant for elements that only appear once on a page. IDs are also almost always preferred... I'm paraphrasing here, but,

"The key thing to know is that IDs identify a specific element and therefore must be unique on the page - you can only use a specific ID once per document. Many browsers do not enforce this rule but it is a basic rule of HTML/XHTML and should be observed. Classes mark elements as members of a group and can be used multiple times, so if you want to define a style which will be applied to multiple elements you should use a class instead."

So, essentially, we should be observing the following:

Use a class tag if:

  1. The style is used in various places throughout the document
  2. The style is very general
Use an id tag if:
  1. The style is only used once ever in the document (like most panes are)
  2. The style is specific to a certain area of the document (like most panes are)

DNN's inherent injection of dnn_ to server-time IDs changes things somewhat.

My recommendation would be for a future release where this didn't occur. It would allow skinners to be able to style the panes / wrappers based on their ID's as opposed to having to add an extraneous class name for it as well.

Your thoughts..?

Jon


Shebang Websites - A product of Mogridge Design
Hey, we're partnered with UntangleMyWeb.com

 
New Post
7/18/2010 10:12 AM
 
What you say about the use of IDs and Classes is correct and I understand where you are coming from, but in this instance is using a class to only target one item that much of a problem?  You are adding the same css but using a '.' rather than a '#'.
 
New Post
7/19/2010 4:55 AM
 
If this would be changed all skins using the exisitng id's would break, so I'm guessing it will not be changed.
Just use a class instead of the id as noted before and your safe...
 
New Post
7/19/2010 3:39 PM
 

Hi Timo

I figured this would be the response I would get... And (this is not a criticism on you, as I know where it comes from), the answer is a very frustrating one.

It's frustrating, not in the fact that I don't know how to fix the problem, but in that the response is one the DNN team seems to take on most suggestions like these... It's the model of inclusion - in this case, keeping things the way they have been for years even though it may not be the best solution in order to retain backwards compatibility. (Kinda like having to keep IE6 users happy.)

In my honest opinion, trying to be all things to all people is one of the biggest mistakes CMS platforms make - both in attracting users and retaining them. All this model of inclusion does is attract mass, but not critical mass. Choosing a target market is tough. But it does mean eliminating entire groups of people from inclusion. I'm afraid that what DotNetNuke is doing more and more is making it easier for lay-users on one end, but infinitely more frustrating for true designer-coders and developers on the other end.

Platforms and frameworks should conform to global standards (and what we want them to do), not the other way around - where users have to conform to the framework. And there are other frameworks out there that do their best to interfere as little as possible with the pure side of markup - XHTML and CSS.

I've been an advocate for DNN for some time, but I'm personally getting more and more frustrated as we carry this heavy, legacy rubbish with us.

How is it that some CMS / Blogging frameworks (as powerful) are only 6mb total for download and DNN is 23mb..? Come on..! Surely there's something to be said of that?

I also bet that if one was to take a critical look at a suggestion like mine, that it actually makes sense, and is a relatively simple idea to implement. And yet, I still have to create a class or add another div when I shouldn't really have to.

I dunno. Just one person's opinion, I guess.


Shebang Websites - A product of Mogridge Design
Hey, we're partnered with UntangleMyWeb.com

 
New Post
7/20/2010 4:18 AM
 
Jon Edwards wrote:

Hi Timo

I figured this would be the response I would get... And (this is not a criticism on you, as I know where it comes from), the answer is a very frustrating one.

It's frustrating, not in the fact that I don't know how to fix the problem, but in that the response is one the DNN team seems to take on most suggestions like these... It's the model of inclusion - in this case, keeping things the way they have been for years even though it may not be the best solution in order to retain backwards compatibility. (Kinda like having to keep IE6 users happy.)

In my honest opinion, trying to be all things to all people is one of the biggest mistakes CMS platforms make - both in attracting users and retaining them. All this model of inclusion does is attract mass, but not critical mass. Choosing a target market is tough. But it does mean eliminating entire groups of people from inclusion. I'm afraid that what DotNetNuke is doing more and more is making it easier for lay-users on one end, but infinitely more frustrating for true designer-coders and developers on the other end.

Platforms and frameworks should conform to global standards (and what we want them to do), not the other way around - where users have to conform to the framework. And there are other frameworks out there that do their best to interfere as little as possible with the pure side of markup - XHTML and CSS.

I've been an advocate for DNN for some time, but I'm personally getting more and more frustrated as we carry this heavy, legacy rubbish with us.

How is it that some CMS / Blogging frameworks (as powerful) are only 6mb total for download and DNN is 23mb..? Come on..! Surely there's something to be said of that?

I also bet that if one was to take a critical look at a suggestion like mine, that it actually makes sense, and is a relatively simple idea to implement. And yet, I still have to create a class or add another div when I shouldn't really have to.

I dunno. Just one person's opinion, I guess.

 +1 from me too :)

DNN should NOT be injecting anything into to the sites HTML. This not only creates messy HTML but it also makes it harder for skinners to work with DNN.

The mistakes that have been made in the past have to be fixed one day & I think the Corp just needs to bite the bullet & correct them.

What I don't understand is why the Corp approves breaking changes - like having to have a core login module on a custom login page. This change alone broke just about every site with a custom login module (including 20+ sites I have upgraded in the past week). To me this was just plain wrong to break everyones site just to look after a few people who had no login module on their page (especially when there is a login page reset script floating around that worked quite nicely for the very few people that actually needed it).

 
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HomeHomeUsing DNN Platf...Using DNN Platf...Skins, Themes, ...Skins, Themes, ...Recommendation for future DNN release: Remove dnn_ prefixRecommendation for future DNN release: Remove dnn_ prefix


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