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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...DNN 5.0DNN 5.0
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2/27/2008 11:38 AM
 

Tom, I know its pointless to argue, and I agree the core pieces of DNN mainly the modules are pretty bad at this moment. Don't think I have used a core module for anything, they are just overly lacking. But on the flip side I have spent 100 bucks that is it for a module package which allows me to do everything I could possibly ever dream about needing. The bonus I have experience over drupal/Joomla is DNN is asp.net / sql based. A key aspect for many developers / business. While drupal / joomla are apache/mysql based with the possiblity of datalayers allowing access to sql it still cuts out the newer technology aspects of asp.net. I run a hosting business and have tried both Drupal and Joomla both cause well good SQL servers are expensive to rent / buy. In the end I moved to DNN cause of its structure. I run  3 main installs and have around 80 portals(sites) running off those 3 installations. Not they are on different servers for resource reasons (naturally). With drupal / joomla I had to keep installing new instances to have completely different user experiences. With DNN I have built in control to sub-charge / wholesale my hosting directly in the portal, turn on or off my custom modules and charge monthly access fees for a page, all with the core components.

For the table based comment its the community not the developers that cause you to see table based skins. Not a single one of my skins has any table tags they are all pure CSS and was really easy to do no issues at all, and I have tons of custom containers / modules running that I didn't build. DNN's skin parser is just simple enough anyone with notepad who knows how to code about 10 lines of html can make a custom skin for DNN and it will work. This means people can use a free wysiwyg editor and create their own skin in minutes via tables. When it comes to CSS skins well most people dont have a mastery level of CSS so they run into issues. For any professional web-developer with CSS skills its nothing and simple to do.

DNN's biggest downfall to date is its attempt to be backwards compatiable. Drupal is not at all backwards compatiable and is one of the main reasons I checked it off my listing. Everytime they released a new version half my modules stopped completely working. I think the core team has realized the main faults of DNN and are working to resolve them with version 5.0 most of the key flaws / holdbacks (caused by being backwards compatiable) are being resolved in the next set of releases.

Overall Joomla and DNN are close in features and functions, but as I stated one uses php and mysql the other is asp.net and sql.  In regards to speed, its all about the server setup for a DNN site, and for those less techincal there is a free module which manages the viewstate issues of DNN basically removing its core slow spot.
Its really just spliting hairs, cause both systems do the same exact thing just different ways, once you truely learn either other you can out do the other one ten fold.

For me I hate how php is structured its super sloppy and all over the place. (note you can write good quality php but most people dont have that skill level so you get a bunch of sloopy coding). Asp.net forces a unified structure and no matter what asp.net code I look at its almost textbook standard.

Is either bad no, they both accomplish the same thing, just preference.

Back to OP: you can wait but I suggest going ahead if its needed and getting a module via 3rd party and using it, till the full end version of DNN 5 is released. Noting it might be end of year or later.

 
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2/27/2008 11:57 AM
 

Tom,

I'm glad that you like my tutorials.

As to your points about DNN/ASP.NET.  I think that the core team is going down the right path with 5.0 as there does appear to be a good plan in place to cleanup some of the "complexity" that currently exists with tables, CSS etc.  It is still a ways out but I guess I do hold out hope that the end solution is going to be good, we can't expect change overnight....but hopefully we will see some changes soon.


-Mitchel Sellers
Microsoft MVP, ASPInsider, DNN MVP
CEO/Director of Development - IowaComputerGurus Inc.
LinkedIn Profile

Visit mitchelsellers.com for my mostly DNN Blog and support forum.

Visit IowaComputerGurus.com for free DNN Modules, DNN Performance Tips, DNN Consulting Quotes, and DNN Technical Support Services
 
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2/27/2008 3:13 PM
 

Mitch Sellers wrote

As I mentioned above, I am done pushing, if I hear back from the corp about options, I'll still help, but after pushing stong for over 6 months trying to get something done, I'm throwing in the towel and re-dedicating the time to furthering my free modules that are available at my site.

That's GREAT news.  Well, maybe not for core modules, but I honestly prefer you working on third party modules that "fix" my problems with the core modules.  The Deniable Text/HTML for example solves a lot of issues I had with granularity in permissions.  The Expandable Text/HTM is a natural enhancement and just plain cool for handling layout.  And actually, the first tool I really used was the SQL formatting tool you have, perfect for documentation work.

Even if a Mitch Sellers' Documents module was available but at a fee, I'd look seriously at it.

Jeff

 
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2/27/2008 3:23 PM
 

I've used Joomla and Drupal (Mostly Joomla) and they are perfect at what they do.  But they're a lot harder (for me) to develop to and the code is relatively crappy for a lot of functions.  If you want nothing more than what Joomla delivers, then it's probably a better choice for many users than DNN.  It's certainly no easeir to set up or keep running, but in many ways it's a lot smoother.  But It's a bear to extend in any reasonable manner.

FWIW, DNN was horrendous in 2.x versions, you pretty much had to rewrite the core to do anything.  3.x didn't get a lot better, but as DNN matures it's developing a much better separation and modularization in programming.   5.0 promises to be even better and should fix a lot of the leftover issues, but there will always be a lack of decent core modules unless there are some serious development teams working on them.  Only the corporation can control that now, but it's always possible that module development will move to third party developers and core modules will be a thing of the past.  Nothing says that third party apps have to cost money, look at Mitch's freebies.  Simple maybe, but better than the core.  Maybe a WIKI dev team will spring up outside of corproate control.

Jeff

 
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2/28/2008 8:34 AM
 

I would also point out that the DotNetNuke forge was created in part to allow more of the community to participate in creating OS modules.  If you don't like the way one module team is being run, form your own and build it out.  Nothing is stopping you.  In fact we have put the tools in place to make it easier for people to find your OS module and to contribute to your project.

Tom - As to your comments I am not sure why you are even posting to this forum.  Clearly you don't care for DotNetNuke and yet you continue to actively participate in the community.  To me that seems a bit odd.


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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