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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...WORKFLOWWORKFLOW
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8/26/2008 5:03 PM
 

Rob, I couldn't disagree with you more. What you're describing is not how it is in the enterprise world. The trend in content management is to match those GENERATING content directly to the website itself. Workflow is simply a part of the process to get there. But essentially, your telling me that business rules need not apply in our web tools. I can safely say to you now, without a doubt in my tiny little brain, that this is the fastest way to be shown the door in a large enterprise environment. I could not look my clients, who are the ones ASKING for this function, and tell them simply to do it like the old days and hire a web administrator. That is what they have now, sir. And the individual is overworked and underpaid and thinking about quiting unless he/she can work more efficiently and see their kids for dinner more than once/week. This is the story I have heard from client after client after client in the enterprise spectrum. They want tools to make things efficient, but they want accountability and the abilty to audit everything that happens, if they can.

Only a small to medium-sized business, a far majority of the time, couldn't care less if one guy posted all the content and deal with mistake made. There is less at risk, and therefore less to lose. For the enterprise, the exact opposite.

Again, I say this as a IT company trying to meet market demand with a solution to their problems. I would love it if they would just shut up and don't sweat the details about this and that. But that produces, in the end, a jangled mess and crappy site (from a content perspective). That's when they end up calling us for help, looking for a way to control how content gets up there.

 
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8/26/2008 5:32 PM
 

All I can say is that you should be wise in choosing your modules and administering who can do what. You COULD also set up sql triggers on the module tables to record changes or who changed what, but it's an awful lot of effort for something that would rarely be needed. I think the beautifull part about DNN is that it doesn't try to force you into a workflow system, which in my corporate experiences, is overkill and cirumvented by content editors eventually anyways.

This may not be the product for you. Perhaps you need to look at Sharepoint or something else. Do some research and compare the cost of other workflow solutions and you probably can make a strong argument how this offers more flexibility and enough security (if applied properly) to be worth some rule bending.

Trust me, I had this argument with my VP of IT once upon a time. The bottom line is the bottom line, and DNN is free.

 
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8/26/2008 5:49 PM
 

ech01 wrote

Trust me, I had this argument with my VP of IT once upon a time. The bottom line is the bottom line, and DNN is free.

Point taken, there. On that note, it's really too bad. So much potential and one aspect holdign it back from us using it as the CMS standard. That said, I haven't given up. I will be looking at this more this week and next and improvise as best I can for the short term. It would outstanding if my dev team could produce the solution we (and possibly the market) has been waiting for, and thus gain the spoils from it.

I also appreciate the discussion here. It has helped me both vent and think about DNN. Posts should be both a way to spare intellectually and also motivate. You guys (especially Rob) have helped tremendously here, as I won't give up just yet as a result. Just wanted to say thanks.

 

 
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8/26/2008 8:04 PM
 

canamguy wrote
 

Rob, I couldn't disagree with you more. What you're describing is not how it is in the enterprise world. The trend in content management is to match those GENERATING content directly to the website itself. Workflow is simply a part of the process to get there. But essentially, your telling me that business rules need not apply in our web tools. I can safely say to you now, without a doubt in my tiny little brain, that this is the fastest way to be shown the door in a large enterprise environment. I could not look my clients, who are the ones ASKING for this function, and tell them simply to do it like the old days and hire a web administrator. That is what they have now, sir. And the individual is overworked and underpaid and thinking about quiting unless he/she can work more efficiently and see their kids for dinner more than once/week. This is the story I have heard from client after client after client in the enterprise spectrum. They want tools to make things efficient, but they want accountability and the abilty to audit everything that happens, if they can.

Only a small to medium-sized business, a far majority of the time, couldn't care less if one guy posted all the content and deal with mistake made. There is less at risk, and therefore less to lose. For the enterprise, the exact opposite.

Again, I say this as a IT company trying to meet market demand with a solution to their problems. I would love it if they would just shut up and don't sweat the details about this and that. But that produces, in the end, a jangled mess and crappy site (from a content perspective). That's when they end up calling us for help, looking for a way to control how content gets up there.

You don't have to agree with me. I'm not telling you about trends in content management, I'm just telling you the way it is with DNN in order to save you the cost in time and effort of finding it out yourself - that is the reason I post answers to questions in these forums.

My posts are a knowledgable answer to your questions about DNN, not a debate about corporate workflow ideals. You're not telling me anything about business I don't already know - I've spent my entire corporate career "improving business processes through web technologies" (That's straight from  my job description). I'm also the person who insisted that DNN remove the CMS designation 3 years ago - because clearly, to anyone like yourself who knows about workflow, it is not a CMS.

The deal is: DNN is not a self-contained corproate workflow tool. Neither is Visual Studio, neither is DreamWeaver, neither is Photoshop. You can build workflow into DNN via modules, and you can create business workflow incorporating DNN, same as with any application or external procedure, but that's it. 

What you appear to be saying is that it would be great if DNN did incorporate tools for creating and recording workflow procedures and tasks. Yes, that would be nice... obviously.

Here's some more advice gained from my experience here: DNN isn't going to change this aspect overnight - in fact in my three years, the basic production workflow has not changed in the slightest. I suggest a better option would be to write up your requirements and then go and assess all of the available systems:

http://www.cmsmatrix.org/

Rob

 
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8/26/2008 8:42 PM
 

I think no one is mentioning the big pink elephant in the room, which is that Sharepoint does do what you want.  When I had to maintain a Sharepoint site I hated for all of the things it didn't do as well as Dotnetnuke, however, the one of the few things it did do was allow for a workflow.  I am not a fan of Sharepoint and I worked with a Sharepoint site, creating themes, web parts, etc, but it might be the answer to your problem.

Stuart


Hilbert Solutions, LLC
Owner, Hilbert Solutions, LLC
http://www.HilbertSolutions.com
A DNN Service Provider
From Module Development to DNN Upgrades, your one stop DNN Shop
 
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