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Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

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Welcome to the DNN Community Forums, your preferred source of online community support for all things related to DNN.
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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Grave ConcernsGrave Concerns
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8/25/2006 1:44 PM
 

I am one of 4 webmasters at a west coast community college. We are embarking on a dotNetNuke installation to ease our load a bit by letting professors/staff have edit right to their content. It's a great idea, but I find myself increasingly concerned as I get further into dotNetNuke. I have interviewed several if the dnn references who have all said "it's great - the only trouble we have had is during upgrades."

Here are my concerns:

1. The documentation was written by absolute experts in dnn so they tend to overlook/omit items that they unconsciencly assume everybody knows.

2. The program flow (for admin/host) doesn't seem to be intuitive.

3. Every time I go to the dnn site for help, it takes forever to get an answer. The response of the page is about as fast as a snail (my connection speed - verfied by 2wire - is 25-30Mbps). I spend more time waiting for a page to load than I do reading the page. More often than not I get a timeout error. We are a college and absolutely cannot have such a condition. It seems to me that the fastest possible implementation of dnn should be the home dnnn site.

4. Dispite what the gurus say about installation, we have not successfully installed dnn on our server after almost 2 week of trying. (I gave up on my personal/training installation after 6 attempts of carefully following the instructions.)

I have other concerns, but you get my point: I think the light at the end of the tunnel is the train!

The reason for this post: Has anyone out there experienced similar frustration? Did you get through them? How did you get through them? In short, is there daylight at the end of the tunnel or should be take a different path?

Thanks for any responses,

Gordon

 
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8/25/2006 5:26 PM
 
Hello Gordon,

       I know I'll get beat up for this but....The documentation for DNN is pretty good now.  They even go a little more in debth than they have too.  Setting up a DNN site on IIS is really no problem at all if you have created an IIS site before.  It's assumed that all of the Microsoft components are installed and working correctly. If they are not then there will be more problems.  (I'm working on a machine right now were the IT guy somehow hosed ASPNET 2.0)  You will have to know how to work through those problems. 

       If all the MS software is installed and setup correctly, installing DNN is a simple as creating a directory and upzip the install package to it, create a database on SQL Server, change one line in web.config, create a virtual directory in IIS and open the site in IE.  Oh yeah and set permissions on the virtual directory.

       I agree the flow takes a little getting used to for the admin/host stuff but you should be able to pick it up pretty quick and it's much better than I've seen in other protal software.

       The speed issue... Hmmm that could be a lot of stuff and I'm sure this site has it's problems.  That said 95% of the time for me on a little ol' 7 MB cable connection the load speed is just fine.  There are some things that I've timed out on.  One of them catching up groups that I haven't read for awhile that have a lot of threads. 

       There are a lot of users on this site. Right now there are 326746 users and 326 of them are on line right now.  Probably reading the forums. That DNN can handle it on donated equipment and bandwidth is great if you ask me.  This isn't the biggest DNN site on the web either. There are others that are way bigger and just as fast if not faster.

       Once you have your site up and running you will really like DNN.

Paul Davis
 
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8/25/2006 5:53 PM
 

I understand your point about documentation, but it's a difficult area to get right for everyone, as our userbase covers everyone from complete newbies to the most cutting edge. Recently we doubled the installation document from 30 pages to 65+ pages, but realistically to cover every supported OS  , IIS version and SQL version would result in a huge document that would be too large to download, and a large overhead for the coreteam to keep up to date. The majority of the complexity is in getting these factors of the environment right (which is a similar requirement for pretty much any asp.net web app)- the actually dnn specific configuration is really only a few settings in the web.config file. That said, we are planning to use the dnn wiki when it's a bit more production ready - at that point i expect we and the community will be better able to cover areas such as this in much greater depth (as well as support multiple languages)

In the meantime, I'd recommend you take a look at the installer project http://dotnetnuke.com/DotNetNukeProjects/UtilityInstaller/tabid/838/forumid/62/threadid/63862/scope/posts/Default.aspx , it's only in beta at the minute, but it's covers many of the common setup scenarios well already.

We are suffering some performance problems at the minute, we're working to address these (I detailed some of them in this thread http://dotnetnuke.com/Community/ForumsDotNetNuke/tabid/795/mid/2108/forumid/118/threadid/64609/scope/posts/Default.aspx ). Also details of a recent outage are here http://dotnetnuke.com/Community/ForumsDotNetNuke/tabid/795/forumid/65/threadid/64978/scope/posts/Default.aspx , as well as a note on our plans to improve our server setup. This should help substantially (note: we've wanted to do this for some time, but as a volunteer opensource project it takes time to get resources such as servers/bandwidth etc.)

Cathal


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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8/25/2006 7:07 PM
 
I place the blame on two things here:

#1. I find most colleges are not big Microsoft fans, and even the professors don't know much about Windows. I think it's actually possible to get a computer science degree without ever touching a Windows machine.

#2. DNN is not easy to install/upgrade, and the docs are poorly written.

For example, each upgrade requires you to KNOW all the changes you made to the web.config, and copy them to the new web.config. If your upgrade fails in any way, you need to restore both your files and database.

The the text about permissions -- probably the most important part of the installation -- is extremely misleading about which user and which directories to set.

Jason Honingford - Web & Software Developer
www.PortVista.com
 
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8/25/2006 8:32 PM
 
I have not had any problems installing DNN by following the docs and an article that Shaun Waker wrote (I don't have the link handy).

My upgrades have been painless, but my installations so far are very simple. I'm sure I'll run into gotchas as I deploy more modules, but that's a problem with any complex content management system.

I agree that some parts of the documentation feel like they were written for DNN experts, or at least advanced programmers. For example, I haven't found a graphic designer yet who could follow the skinning documentation. Having said that, the docs are fairly extensive and for the most part I have found them to be very helpful.

Marius

email: MY USER ID at gmail dot com
 
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