Products

Solutions

Resources

Partners

Community

Blog

About

QA

Ideas Test

New Community Website

Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

Yay... Take Me to the Community!

Welcome to the DNN Community Forums, your preferred source of online community support for all things related to DNN.
In order to participate you must be a registered DNNizen

HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...4.5.4 ..  when?4.5.4 .. when?
Previous
 
Next
New Post
6/5/2007 1:28 AM
 

I believe that sentiment is well shared... and has certainly been an item of discussion amongst the team lately.


Scott Willhite, Co-Founder DNN

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. "
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 
New Post
6/5/2007 8:26 AM
 

DnnInstalled - It is a great sentiment to hear calls for regression testing and dogfooding;  For us to spend more time getting a release correct.  But clearly not everyone in this thread shares that opinion.  In fact 4.5.3 did not add NEW bugs as far as I can tell.  4.5.3 was created specifically to address a very narrow range of bugs which were of such a critical nature as to make 4.5.2 unuseable for a broad segment of the community. 

Even with the limited nature of the 4.5.3 release, we still have others in the community complaining over other fixes that were not added to 4.5.3.  In fact the whole point of this thread seems to be give me 4.5.4 as quickly as possible - consequences be damned.  When I hear calls demanding that we give a date for 4.5.4 it really gets the blood boiling.  The same individuals will 1) Complain when we miss the date 2) Complain when we don't fix bugs according to their priority 3) Complain when the release goes out and has additional bugs.

So what is our plan and when will we release 4.5.4:

1) The first order of business is to get a complete picture of which items need fixing.  This does not happen in one day or even one week.  We need a couple of weeks minimum from a previous release to get a full picture of what the major bugs are in relation to the latest release.  Get those new bugs entered into Gemini. Prioritize the new bugs with the existing bugs that did not make the cut for the previous release.
2) Once we have a fairly complete picture, then we can prioritize our work and create a scope for the next release.  In this case, the general scope has already been determined - the next release will focus on bug fixes.  We may have a couple of minor feature enhancements and refactorings to address items which were already slated for the next release, but I don't believe that there will be any new features.
3) After we have a scope then we will create an internal target date for the release.  Generally speaking, at a minimum we aim to have at least one release every quarter.  We believe that 2 or 3 month release cycles are optimum for both the team and the community.  If we release too often then the developers become burnt out.  If we release too infrequently then the community suffers.
4)  As we approach our target date we will start scheduling the expected beta period and targeted GA date.  These are still a little fluid as we may have additional bugs that pop up either prior to beta or during beta.  This will necessarily require us to change our target dates.
5) Once we have what we believe is a stable and solid release candidate, then we will begin dogfooding the release on DotNetNuke.  Past experience tells us that we need approximately 1 week of dogfooding before a final release.  If we are dogfooding an incremental release candidate then the dogfooding phase can be much shorter since the scope of changes are much smaller (note: this is exactly why we only dogfooded 4.5.3 for mere hours before the release).
6)  When we are comfortable that beta is proceeding as planned and that we have no big surprises, and also assuming that the dogfooding has been unremarkable, then we will publicly announce an expected release date.

There is more to the process which I have not touched on but to answer Brian's original question:  We will give you a release date when we have completed steps 1 through 6 above.  Or, as someone else has already said - we'll release 4.5.4 when it is done.

Now there are a couple things to note here.  For our next release we are creating a formal position for the release manager.  The release manager will be working to formalize our core release processes so that they are repeatable, release after release, with an emphasis on process improvement.  The first step however, is just to get basic processes in place and then work from there.  We will be looking at a more formalized testing method, because clearly, what we are doing now is not working.  The release process will also work to better enable community participation - both in the ability to submit code fixes/patches and in the ability to particpate in a structured beta testing program.

None of this is meant to imply that we don't currently have processes or that we don't do testing.  The problem we have right now is that we are not formalized enough.  Without a release manager, focused on this task, then other factors can begin to influence release decisions, whether it is someone from the community demanding a release date or it is some external event with a fixed date (like the impending release of Orcas or the upcoming OpenForce conference)..  Also, without this focus, it is too easy for critical process steps to be overlooked and then rushed in order to hit already announced target dates.

We expect this week to have formalized the release manager and his role and will let you know more details as they become available.


Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
New Post
6/5/2007 8:26 AM
 

brian wrote

ok, if you follow the never upgrade rule..   we all would be on 1.0 ..    so let's move beyond that ..    when you do upgrade and it has bugs and you need those fixes, you must upgrade, you get new bugs, you need fixes... etc.   

No, I am not running Vista..  and hopefully I wont have to for 10 years..

and for the record for the 100th time...     I believe dnn has moved beyond the free point ...     if everybody paid $20 ...   you wouldnt have had to go Gold   and there would be paid developers....

But the good news is you can always go Platinum  :)

I have watched this thread for some time now. Brian to make it short and sweet that statement reminds me of myself when I was young dumb and… well the point is, I vowed there was no valid reason to leave the DOS world. Well had I followed that logic I would be in a world of hurt right now for sure.

You are constantly complaining, I have complained in fact most people that have been or are now active have made some complaints and while well placed complaints can serve to bring change eventually complaints without merit or without some constructiveness tends to end up treated as spam.

I agree why haven’t you become a benefactor member if you think DNN is past the free stage? You complain that your clients are upset, well you apparently are making money off of the hard work of the core members. If you upgraded and now it doesn’t work in production for your client, guess what? You are guilty of dereliction of due diligence. You should have tested it yourself right? You want to blame others for problems that have crept in. You refuse to join the benefactor program (I know I haven’t yet but that is coming). 

I have used DNN since 1.x, has it worked? Yup it sure has. Has it always been smooth? Not in the least. You get paid by your clients to complete their projects. If you were the one responsible for directing them to use DNN, then you have a reason to be more supportive and constructive.

I have always heard the squeaky wheel gets the grease well my experience has been when the wheel gets to squeaky the operators just put on ear muffs or remove the wheel. I have gotten to the point where when you blast some tirade out I pretty much just ignore it anymore. However this is one time I am going to say something.
 
The core team is not perfect, guess what you have to make money to feed yourself and your family so do they. Yup they could start charging everyone to use DNN, but is that really the best thing for the community. They have struggled, I don’t agree with all of their choices and actions but they are human and they are trying. 
 

So in the end I guess what I am saying is if you want the right to complain so much maybe you should roll up your sleeves and put some helping effort in or belly up to the bar and join the benefactor program.

I apologize to the good citizens of the DNN community for this long winded soap box tirade but I felt that I really needed to say my piece.

 
Russ

Russ

 
New Post
6/5/2007 9:10 AM
 

Joe,

I want to thank you for the well laid out explaination about the release process.  I am glad to hear that plans are already in place to address the release issues and to get things moving in the right direction!


-Mitchel Sellers
Microsoft MVP, ASPInsider, DNN MVP
CEO/Director of Development - IowaComputerGurus Inc.
LinkedIn Profile

Visit mitchelsellers.com for my mostly DNN Blog and support forum.

Visit IowaComputerGurus.com for free DNN Modules, DNN Performance Tips, DNN Consulting Quotes, and DNN Technical Support Services
 
New Post
6/5/2007 9:21 AM
 
  • Formal Release Manager role
  • Formal release processes
  • Formalized testing methods
  • Enabling community participation for submitting code and in the betas


    Not that you need to be told, but this is a major step in the right direction Joe. Very good news indeed.

 

It may not be because of Brian that this is all happening, but it was Brian that started a post where this was all announced so thanks Brian.


DotNetNuke Modules from Snapsis.com
 
Previous
 
Next
HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...4.5.4 ..  when?4.5.4 .. when?


These Forums are dedicated to discussion of DNN Platform and Evoq Solutions.

For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines:

  1. No Advertising. This includes promotion of commercial and non-commercial products or services which are not directly related to DNN.
  2. No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or other customers to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
  3. Discussion or promotion of DNN Platform product releases under a different brand name are strictly prohibited.
  4. No Flaming or Trolling.
  5. No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
  6. Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.
  7. English language posting only, please.
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out