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HomeHomeUsing DNN Platf...Using DNN Platf...Administration ...Administration ...Stopping "Include_Path" requests, IStopping "Include_Path" requests, I'm getting hacked like crazy!
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9/1/2008 1:15 PM
 

abstraction wrote
 

 Sanjay Mehrotra wrote
 

 

Doesn't that look like if the PHP binaries are installed on IIS, IIS will parse the posted URL and process whatever is in the files?

 

Hi Sanjay,

I'm not sure I understand, maybe you could reiterate on that one a little?  I am merely presuing the cause of why my website was hacked and I lost absolutely everything, this has happened twice with DotNetNuke and *never* when I have used a basic website created by myself using HTML / PHP / ASP so I can quite confidently say it's a security hole in the DNN framework.

 


 


Nick - not sure I understand the reasoning behind this has happened twice with DNN but never with a plain site and therefore DNN is the culprit? There are hundreds if not thousands of other things besides DNN that I can see as a potential source of a hack even when using DNN or not.
That being said, let me explain a little further about my post.
You indicated (in the other forum thread ) that you have turned off PHP on your box. I'm assuming that this means you'd installed PHP on top of IIS so that you could serve your PHP sites/functionality via your website (either the one that got hacked or maybe another site you have on your box)... Chances are that someone did a scan of your box and found you have PHP installed and noted that you did not have a patch for the vulnerability in question (which btw has been known since 2007 - over a year ago)...
I was able to find this information based on a very limited search I've done just this morning for PHP related vulnerabilities which unfortunately is not my area of expertise...

Sanjay


AcuitiDP - Oracle Data Provider for DotNetNuke
 
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9/2/2008 4:25 AM
 

Sanjay Mehrotra wrote
 

 abstraction wrote
 

 

 Sanjay Mehrotra wrote
 

 

Doesn't that look like if the PHP binaries are installed on IIS, IIS will parse the posted URL and process whatever is in the files?

 

Hi Sanjay,

I'm not sure I understand, maybe you could reiterate on that one a little?  I am merely presuing the cause of why my website was hacked and I lost absolutely everything, this has happened twice with DotNetNuke and *never* when I have used a basic website created by myself using HTML / PHP / ASP so I can quite confidently say it's a security hole in the DNN framework.

 

 


 


Nick - not sure I understand the reasoning behind this has happened twice with DNN but never with a plain site and therefore DNN is the culprit? There are hundreds if not thousands of other things besides DNN that I can see as a potential source of a hack even when using DNN or not.
That being said, let me explain a little further about my post.
You indicated (in the other forum thread ) that you have turned off PHP on your box. I'm assuming that this means you'd installed PHP on top of IIS so that you could serve your PHP sites/functionality via your website (either the one that got hacked or maybe another site you have on your box)... Chances are that someone did a scan of your box and found you have PHP installed and noted that you did not have a patch for the vulnerability in question (which btw has been known since 2007 - over a year ago)...
I was able to find this information based on a very limited search I've done just this morning for PHP related vulnerabilities which unfortunately is not my area of expertise...

Sanjay

Well for a start, the previous time it happened it was on the same server with exactly the same system setup, I merely removed my own home baked website, and swapped it for a DNN one.  Then within 5 months, everything was lost.  Bare in mind that my own site had been running nicely for well over a year without any such incident occurring.  These attacks look very automated as they are extremely regimental and apparently seem to try anyone with a DotNetNuke system, if DNN wasn't the case why would the robot have even been created?  I'm looking at the most obvious cases here and I really can't see that enabling PHP on a web server could cause it to be hacked so easily.

I was not using PHP for anything, I just noticed that it was enabled, I don't need/want PHP, that's why I'm using DNN.  I'm a dotnet developer and prefer it to all the other web technologies available.

My new site has only been up and running (fresh VPS) since June/July 2008 some time, so you are suggesting that a security hole found in 2007 was still present on my system?  I shall have a check but will be quite surprised.

What I find quite amusing is that I have said I disabled PHP, but not proved what was the cause of my site being hacked, as I am treating it the same as all other custom modules, you are really willing to blame PHP, yet do not even want me to suggest that a DNN module is at fault, do you not think that's a little bit hypocritical?  I have to look at the entire picture, which is what I'm doing.

 
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9/2/2008 4:38 AM
 

I've just found that PHP was only even on the system in the first place because Plesk had been installed at one point before deploying DNN, it had been removed beforehand but left "Plesk" PHP libraries on the system, so that might explain if the Plesk system had been out of date from installation, although I thought it's install process was a little bit more intelligent than that and considering the number of systems it is currently deployed to, one would presume it would take massive security holes like this into account within a year of being noticed.

I'm not even sure if there are any logs for the PHP system that will tell me when/what happened exactly, but no doubt there aren't any

 
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9/2/2008 6:02 PM
 

I've already explained why this isnt a dotnetnuke issue @ http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/Forums/tabid/795/forumid/30/threadid/252359/scope/posts/threadpage/2/Default.aspx ,but i did some subsequent research and noticed that include_path (the querystring value in your original url) is an administration value used by plesk's Horde webmail (see http://robotterror.com/site/wiki/quick_patch_for_php_5_2_5_breaking_horde_on_plesk_8_2_1_and_earlier ) .Due to a bug in versions of php prior to 5.2.5 , associated applications were able to override php values (this would be the rough equivalent of bad asp.net code being able to set IIS values - scary stuff).

I've worked in internet security for a number of years and during that time php & mysql were always regarded as easy targets - mainly due to php code being scripting code (and not compiled classes) and mysql code usually being dynamic sql (before v5 added support for stored procedures. In addition the php engine itself was prone to a lot of major security issues -just like asp was back in the days before Microsoft got their house in order. Whilst php/mysql has got a lot better, there is still a legacy of a lot of code implemented with bad practices and I would recommend if possible you run any php app's on a seperate server, as you are much more likely to have a hack caused by php/mysql that asp.net/sql server (note: apache is a superb webserver so immune from any criticism here). The other major problem is that if you have a hack caused by an error in php itself or an application written in php, then as there is no sandbox of permissions (like .net's code access security), many hacks can escalate above the site itself.

Cathal


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
New Post
9/5/2008 5:25 AM
 

cathal connolly wrote
 

I've already explained why this isnt a dotnetnuke issue @ http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/Forums/tabid/795/forumid/30/threadid/252359/scope/posts/threadpage/2/Default.aspx ,but i did some subsequent research and noticed that include_path (the querystring value in your original url) is an administration value used by plesk's Horde webmail (see http://robotterror.com/site/wiki/quick_patch_for_php_5_2_5_breaking_horde_on_plesk_8_2_1_and_earlier ) .Due to a bug in versions of php prior to 5.2.5 , associated applications were able to override php values (this would be the rough equivalent of bad asp.net code being able to set IIS values - scary stuff).

I've worked in internet security for a number of years and during that time php & mysql were always regarded as easy targets - mainly due to php code being scripting code (and not compiled classes) and mysql code usually being dynamic sql (before v5 added support for stored procedures. In addition the php engine itself was prone to a lot of major security issues -just like asp was back in the days before Microsoft got their house in order. Whilst php/mysql has got a lot better, there is still a legacy of a lot of code implemented with bad practices and I would recommend if possible you run any php app's on a seperate server, as you are much more likely to have a hack caused by php/mysql that asp.net/sql server (note: apache is a superb webserver so immune from any criticism here). The other major problem is that if you have a hack caused by an error in php itself or an application written in php, then as there is no sandbox of permissions (like .net's code access security), many hacks can escalate above the site itself.

Cathal

Hi Cathal,

Thanks for the very informative answer, the reason I said that I didn't know if it was a dotnetnuke issue was that I don't know if the "include_path" references were to blame.  As far as I know I had uninstalled Plesk, so unless it left some binaries on the system that were capable of processing the query then it couldn't have been.  I certainly wasn't using the horde webmail for anything.

Anyway thanks for the info, I shan't be using PHP in the near future anyway that's for sure!  I'm like 99% of the way to getting my site live again so if it happens again, this time with no Plesk anywhere near the system, nor PHP for that matter, it would have to fall back...  Anyway, with any luck that won't happen!

 
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