hi

As for me I do everythign with css, I also use a 3rd party menu from snapsis.com because i want my menu to be based on an unordered list. I use divs for structure of page and for the rest follow all other semantic html rules, most important one dont use tables for layout of designs only display of tabular data

As for non cookie cutter dnn designs ( none of them use the standard dnn navaigation )

http://www.itbuzz.nl

http://www.schwingsoft.com

http://dnngrid960.39.websecurestores.com/RocketThemes/April08Chromatophore/tabid/68/Default.aspx ( joomla skin conversion )

If you put some time into it you can make any design  into a dnn site. css zen garden wont be an issue if you can control the modules used in your portal an dwhat they output. If they output invalid code then make sure youhave some css debugs in place. I user overlow hidden and scroll in begin stages to filter out any modules that might interfere with laout because of invalid table code

Armand Datema

Get my new skin ( lots of design variations [18 headers, 30 titlebars, 30 breadcrumbs, 3 footers ], 50+ typography containers , 50+ page templates and an online theme builder for unlimited skin variations) Aura>

For all your skin conversions

2DNN

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Umbraca, never heard of that.

Aaprt form dnn i ever realy worked with anything I was there from the start. Each version made skinning easier but none of theversions were very css and xhtml valid friendly. Altho now I have a base skin that works in al browsers and I can style pretty mucyh any way I want even as dnn portal

I have great hopes for the new v5 version

Armand Datema

Get my new skin ( lots of design variations [18 headers, 30 titlebars, 30 breadcrumbs, 3 footers ], 50+ typography containers , 50+ page templates and an online theme builder for unlimited skin variations) Aura>

For all your skin conversions

2DNN

Follow me on Twitter