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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Upcoming differences in features P.E. and C.E. versions?Upcoming differences in features P.E. and C.E. versions?
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3/19/2009 9:37 PM
 

Joe Brinkman wrote

 

@Oliver - What is there to fork?  People are already free to develop their own modules, skin objects, providers and extensions - and in fact they do - just look on CodePlex, SourceForge, Marketplace and SnowCovered.  We are using those same extensibility points to deliver value to our Professional Customers.  At the same time we are accelerating enhancement of the Community Edition platform.  You do not need DotNetNuke Corp to create an enhanced Control Panel (in fact there are already advanced Control Panels available today).  We provide the needed hooks for anyone to build a control panel and install it for their customers, just like we will do for our customers.  This does not require a code fork, it just requires you to decide that it is a feature that is important to your customer and to spend the engineering effort building it.

Lets bring it back to my first post again, cause clearly people have a problem reading a threaded forum discussion backwards. If the above leaked roadmap is truly what is going to be added into the PE edition in the next minor point release, than I think we're alot closer to a public fork. Granted, this isn't a word for word quote, but it's pretty much what I was trying to get across. 

Clearly, I've understood from the initial post that this wasn't and isn't the official roadmap, and it would be nice if we could get a official to chime in on what exactly will be PE features and CE features in the next release. That's pretty much all I initially was looking for to be cleared up

 

Joe Brinkman wrote

@Oliver - DotNetNuke Corp does not have some secret infrastructure in place that we use that is any different from that used by the community.  We use the same forums, the same bug tracker, and the same version control system as our community does.  We are well aware of the limitations of each one, and in fact are working on correcting many of the deficiencies.  Just because we have not sent you a personal email does not mean that no work is occuring.  I know the forums team has been hard at working preping the next forums release.  We have core team members that are working DNN Corp staff on the Gemini upgrade and we are in the middle of shifting our code repository so we can open it up to the entire community.  It is easy to say "just do it", it is another to actually get it done, as it often takes a lot more effort than most people understand.

Joe, I'm not looking for a personal email on your current daily activities. I'm looking for a bit of transparency, and I'm not the only one. I'm sorry if I'm just completely fed up with the current state of gemini, most of the sub-projects, and the fiasco surrounding the launch of PE. Then a rough draft of the roadmap gets leaked and has all these shiny new features slated for the next PE release while the current infrastructure has been and still remains on the brink of disaster.

Sorry if I'm not up to speed on the private offline chats. Also, as someone that has run a few ISPs, has always maintain my own servers, and also maintains a SCM server for many developers scattered across the planet, I do know what's involved. I don't know how broken your gemini custom modifications are, or what is involved at making your secret infrastructure less secret, so I guess you're right with I don't really know how much time is required to upgrade your infrastructure.

 

Joe Brinkman wrote

@Oliver - DNN 5 was the most widely tested and most widely distributed release of any major platform upgrades we have ever had.  DNN 5 started with early beta releases last April (these releases were probably closer to Alpha releases).  We worked through a lot of issues before we ever opened it up outside the core team.  We went through a number of releases where we opened it up to more and more participants and made the release open to the entire world a full month and a half before the 5.0 release.  One of the reasons it was released is because with all that exposure, we were not getting many bugs reported.  In fact in both November and December we had the bug count down in single digits.  I could easily have held DNN 5.0 for another month - but if no one is telling me there are bugs, what is the point of holding up the release?  So why did we get a bunch of bugs reported in January that weren't reported in December.  In most cases, the bugs reported in January were wholly unrelated to the bugs fixed in December.  A vast majority of the bugs existed in the product going back for  3 or more months prior to the release.  Having been heavily involved in tracking and monitoring the bugs, I can say without question that spending another month in beta would not have substantially improved the quality of the code.  So we releaseed it.  And people reported bugs - and we fixed a large number of them over the next month and a half and released 5.0.1.  And yet more bugs were reported (why weren't they caught in 5.0?), and we are busy fixing as many of those as we can.  5.0.1 is more stable than 4.0.1 or 3.0.1 or even 2.0.1.  Is it yet at a point where I would recommend our Professional customers move to it?  No, but it is getting close.  Does that mean that it is unuseable in a production environment?  No.  I know many people who are using it without any major issues.  Yes they have found some problems, but then I have people who found problems in 4.9.2 as well.

Great, just keep tooting your own horn. Nothing is wrong. Continue onwards, ignore all the blinking lights and blaring sirens, they're for something competely unrelated.

 

Joe Brinkman wrote

I hope this addresses many of the questions raised in this thread.  I am sure there will be more, but I would hope that people would look at our actions for the past 6 years and not automatically assume the worst.  We do not benefit at all by harming the very community we spent many years building up.  Our intention is to grow this community, to help other members of the ecosystem to thrive and to hopefully find a way to be rewarded ourselves for all the hard work we have put in over the years.

Joe, I really do thank you for taking the time writing up this long well thought out response. I'd much rather a response like this than the quick angry replys you get from me. I'm sure I'll regret being so vocal one of these days, but not quite yet...

 

 
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3/20/2009 1:11 AM
 

Joe Brinkman wrote

[EDIT] Sorry.  Didn't mean to go all Nina on everyone with the 1000 page forum post but in this case I hope I was able to answer everyone's questions.

It's great to see official employees of DotNetNuke Corporation apologizing in a sarcastic way for writing a well thought out response to a couple pretty simple questions. I can see why you're being sarcastic, most of the officials words / actions of the core have been a huge mistake that gets pulled back and replaced with another botched attempt to save the previously bombed press release. Hopefully we won't have a flip flop when the roadmap gets approved, I am trying to find a bookie at the moment that will take a bet on the futures dnn market but they're all side tracked with the morgage crisis at the moment

 
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3/20/2009 1:14 AM
 

Alex Shirley wrote

I'm beginning to think it's time to start a new forum for Pro edition and corp stuff so we can get on with the rest (business as usual as far as I'm concerned ).

Of course, this is a great idea. Lets move / delete all the previous posts on the subject as well. This would create the DNN time machine we've all be hoping for over the past couple years that will repair all the previous mistakes.

 
New Post
3/20/2009 11:18 AM
 

I have always tried to keep a level head and be a voice of reason here in the DNN forums. But this is too much.

The reason there are 47 threads like this one spread out all over the Chat About It forum is because of LACK OF COMMUNCATIONS. Not because there are too many or too long of posts from the Corp. members.

@Joe -  Even through out the Brian/Joe battles your Nina comment in this thread has to be the low point of your 1418 posts.  YES, I will stick up for Nina just as I would stick up for Sebastian, Tony V., Mitch Sellars, Tom K, Oliver, or any of the other people here in the forums I know I can count on for answers when I'm stuck and up against a deadline.  Long posts can be a gold mine for someone just starting out (As Nina's were to me a few years ago) and they are very easily skipped if they do not interest you.

@Sebastian - Thank you for trying to maintain some professionalism on behalf of the core team!

Joe and Cathal's posts in this thread lead me to believe that Tom Kress is either a liar or totally inept - or the OP is a liar. None of which I believe to be true. My perception is that it is much more likely that DNN Corp is trying to sneak things by us in an attempt to create revenue while maintaining the community levels of the open source project. That perception could be totally incorrect but that is the perception I have been given. This PE launch will no doubt cause some turnover in the DNN community, I do not want to go anywhere else as I have too much time invested in DNN. But if I do leave for greener pastures I'd like to do so with some of the respect I have had for the Corp./ Core members intact.

To that end could DNN corp please get your ducks in a row and tell us UP FRONT (preferably in a very long post - the more info the better) what their plans are and how the community members will be effected.

Thank you

Greg

 
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3/22/2009 1:21 PM
 

My sincere apologies for the obvious lack of a communication plan lately. In the past 2 months we have grown headcount from 6 to 14 people; filling in the various gaps in our management team so that we now have dedicated Sales, Marketing, Product, Engineering, and Community resources. At the same time we have been establishing 2 locations for physical operations - a business office in California and an engineering office in British Columbia. And finally, we have been constructing an operating plan for this year which includes not only roadmap items, but a full financial model to ensure the ongoing preservation of the ecosystem.

With all of this going on in real-time, there is no doubt that things are going to fall through the cracks, there will be gaps in communication, and some actions will lack proper coordination as we internally develop the processes and procedures to manage the project effectively. Clearly, the recent 'sales' email exhibited many of these problems and we have already taken corrective measures to ensure it does not happen again.

Unlike other organizations, every move we make is visible to the general public - so we fully expect to hear vocal criticisms and feedback each time we make a mistake. I will be the first to admit it that it is not the most pleasant experience to have your every move scrutinized and your every slip vilified, but over time I have come to accept that people are much more prone to vocalize their fears and frustrations, than they are to provide praise or appreciation. This is just human nature and I have come to embrace this as a healthy and essential part of a vibrant open source community.

On that note, we will be posting the Roadmap this week for 5.1. It will include information about all of the exciting functionality we are adding to Community Edition. It will also include some explanation on why some enhancements are being reserved for Professional Edition. And we will be making a conscious effort to ensure all public communications are done in a coordinated manner in the future.


My comments are my own and are offered WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Shaun Walker
http://www.siliqon.com
 
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