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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Portal ScalabilityPortal Scalability
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6/11/2009 12:06 PM
 

Hi all,

I apologize if this is an well-worn or already -answered question, but I have been searching and reading over the last week, and I haven't been able to find any definitive answers.

I'm working with a client who is researching switching from SharePoint to DNN 5.  We currently host about 50 sites for various communities, with all of the sites having the same codebase but with varying features enabled.  At our current growth schedule, we are expect to have about 100 sites by the end of the year, and the list would keep growing well into 2010.  The total number of named user accounts will probably be well over 100K, and users will need access to multiple sites.
 
We have been considering having a single DNN installation on our web server farm, with a portal for each community.  This would allow us to have a single instance of the code, a single web application to maintain, and a single database to maintain.  Our hope is that this would reduce the total effort necessary to maintain the system.  Also, it appears that this would allow us to have single user list.
 
However, we have several concerns with this approach.  First, we have seen many posts indicating that having multiple portals can be problematic.  Apparently it can cause performance problems with some modules that do not properly filter results by portal.  Also, there does not seem to be an inherent way of restoring a single portal, so if a portal gets corrupted we would have to restore the entire database, impact all sites and wiping out any other data for any site that had been saved since the last backup.  Is there any recommendations for managing this many portals on a single installation, or is this not recommended?
 
It appears that our other option would be to put each site into its own DNN installation.  This would prevent issues with any sites from disrupting the other sites, and it would allow us to backup and restore the data for single sites.  Also, it seems like it would alleviate some of the potential problems with running that many portals out of the same installation and database.  However, this would require quite a bit of maintenance, since would have 50 or 100 separate web applications, all with a separate instance of code and a separate database.  Also, this would make it more difficult to maintain a single user list, and would probably require a third party utility for synchronizing them.
 
I have researched online quite a bit, but I have not yet been able to find any recommended best practices about this scenerio.  Is this something that could feasibly be hosted by DNN?  If so, would you recommend using a separate installation for each site, or single installation with multiple portals.  Or, is there some middle-ground solution that anyone would recommend?  Has there been any tests or reports of how many portals DNN can support before it begins to seriously impact performance or maintainance?
 
Thanks

 
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6/11/2009 3:52 PM
 

Hi Mike

Very interesting research you are doing there ..... may I ask Why does your client want to switch away from sharepoint in the first place? Is it because of costs of licens or load problem or somethingelse?

/Johan Hyra vattenskoter

 
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6/11/2009 5:02 PM
 

Hi Johan,

We are researching the possible switch for a variety of reasons, including the amount development effort involved in adding new features, the amount of maintenance involved for existing features, and the degree to which the DNN out-of-the-box features and ActiveSocial library aligns to our requirements.  The ability it handle the load has not really been an issue with SharePoint. 

We are still in an evaluation phase, and it very well may not be worth it, but we need to identify whether DNN is capable of handling this scenerio before we proceed. 

Thanks

 
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6/11/2009 7:35 PM
 

Scalability can be a difficult question to answer, as there are many factors that can cause issues. DotNetNuke has no problem handling large numbers of users (this site alone has over 700,000 and is running on modest hardware - 2 webservers, 1 db server, and a NAS. We managed for many years with only 1 webserver and 1 db server)

However, there are a few rules-of-thumb, that i'd recommend considering.

Subsites in DNN are known as portals (either child portals or parent portals). One thing to note is that seperate portals have seperate user bases, so if you want cross-portal users you have to use some 3rd party tools if you want cross-portal logins/user syncronisation (apart from the host, or any other superuser's who have access to all portals). Whilst many people run a large number of portals , there are known scalability problems due to some of the necessary sql queries ran . Whilst I know of some sites with 3000+ portals running succesfully, I know of at least one that had major problems when they reached 4000+ sites. Obvious superior hardware can mitigate some of this, but IMO planning to run 1000's of portals is risky, and you should do some scalability testing. Running a smaller number like you've asked such as 100, will be fine. If you choose to use portals as a form of site virtualisation to create multiple sub-sites with only 1 code base/database, then if you have to do a database restore you are affecting the data for all sites . Theres no fixed guidance here, it's up to the site developer to determine the risk/reward. Often people will create a seperate DNN for mission-critical sites, but use 1 instance for non-critical sites. There are some 3rd party tools that help with portal extraction etc., that may be worth considering.

Another item to be aware of is security roles. Some sites go crazy and create 100's of security roles but this query can again impact. I'd recommend keeping the number of roles low. I've seen sites that tried to create 1 role per user, to allow that user to maintain a personal page, and they've ran into troubles (plus as you can grant permissions at the user level this is not necessary)

As for modules that don't filter based on portalID, they're just poorly written. All core modules are portal and module aware, and I believe the huge majority of free and commercial modules are.

Cathal


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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6/11/2009 11:38 PM
 

 Hi Mike,

I recommend you read this article:

http://powerdnn.com/DedicatedServers/InformationCenter/tabid/327/ServiceID/3211/Default.aspx

I am speaking at the Day of DNN conference on saturday and in my session one of the things that I'm covering are common pitfalls that vertical solution providers run into.  In my presentation I identify using multiple portals is the #1 biggest mistake that companies make when implementing DotNetNuke solutions and I provide a lot of supporting evidence as to why you shouldn't do it.

I hope you're able to make the Day of DNN conference!

 

 

 
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