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HomeHomeGetting StartedGetting StartedNew to DNN Plat...New to DNN Plat...DNN 6 is a very frustrating overall user-experience! Waiting on DNN 6 jailbreak version.DNN 6 is a very frustrating overall user-experience! Waiting on DNN 6 jailbreak version.
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8/3/2011 8:26 AM
 

First off, the overall look and feel of DNN appears more professional and clean.  My hat is off to the designers and front-end guys at DNN Corp. 

But...

As a UX professional I have a few complaints:

1) The use of the word Modules for previous DNN implementations has somehow now replaced the term Container, which we use across the DNN industry.  So this was a strange oversight.  Now anyone trying to find out how to install a module or extension on Google or Bing will get misdirected to installing a "module" on a webpage, let alone how confusing it is to see the same Container term for skins still in use for DNN 6.   (Note: This user-experience wasted an hour of my time trying to figure out how to install my first module.)  Not a great win.  It was a fail.

2) The default setting of COMMON while installing a "Container/ Module" is rather unusual.  This is a fail.  Why not just keep track of last entry change and make it stick as a rule?  Sloppy design = Fail.  Now we are going to call these officially "Extensions", but not one product I saw on snowcovered uses this taxonomy.  It just seems like some arrogant manager at DNN forced this move.  So us DNN4-5 community members must now use both terms if we are talking about different versions of DNN?  This is a big fail.

3) Purchased Extensions: The inclusion of copyright protection schemes is a big fail to this user.  Do you realize users with Internet Download Manager or any firewall that analyzes downloads will not be able to install to DNN 6 automatically?  Why should we now have to forsake all our anti-virus, anti-malware download analyzers and .or internet download managers just to install a module automatically from Snowcovered?  What happens to the other vendors who sell DNN modules directly from their websites?  Complete fail here.  You could have created a small ajax downloader, yet you opted for the basic fallback of using the Client Browser for installing to websites?  This is a fail.  Let alone the utter annoyance of having to Fetch list of extensions each time I want to add a new one.  Rather annoying when you have a large list of "MODULES" to download from snowcovered... funny how the name isn't universal and can be rather confusing?  Rather annoying actually due to #1 above.

4) Not including a manual for DNN 6?  Big fail.  You have a link on documentation on the main page of a fresh DNN 6, and when you go there, it is just DNN 5.x material?  Big big fail for pushing this out to the user community without a manual.

Otherwise it has soe nice very aesthetic features, but you need to focus on proper Information Architecture.  A lot of content and taxonomy is misplaced and hard to find and without any documentation around, the product is not an improvement over DNN 5 by any stretch of the imagination.

It is not wise to implement DNN 6 and have us developers and designers find ways to jailbreak DNN 6 due to this tight relationship you seem to have with a DNN "MODULE" vendor, snowcovered.  Great vendor, but why lock us in this hardcore?  Microsoft or Oracle or the LAMP community ever forcced us to buy from their website only.  It seems very greedy and is really aggravating to see DNN sell itself short in this manner.  DNN is not some Console video game system with a locked in supplier is it?  It was supposed to be open source, that was the big selling point from DNN 3-5.x

I will just await the Jailbreak version of DNN 6 to bypass this silly locked in vendor relationship DNN 6 has with Snowcovered.

Once all the above are corrected, I will start using it. I am just glad I didn't haphazardly trust DNN 6 when I saw some frustrated users wondering how to do basic things and no one would answer them in these forums.

Sorry to give DNN 6 a big thumbs down.

 
New Post
8/3/2011 1:59 PM
 
Can you elaborate on point #1? I generally agree with points #2 and #4, but am really unclear as to what you're talking about with Modules and Containers in point #1.

As far as #3 - the extension gallery stuff works with SnowCovered (mostly commercial) and with the DotNetNuke Forge (open source). This type of integration takes a lot of work on both ends - it seems to make sense to me to start integrating what you can control - and DNN can control both of those. Essentially, there's been an improvement to the way things work for those that use SnowCovered and the DNN Forge - and everything else stays the same (go to your favorite vendors site, buy the module, download it using your favorite internet downloader, and install as usual).

-Ian

Software Engineer
Co-Founder, dnnGallery
Stack Overflow: Ian Robinson
Twitter: @irobinson
Linked In: Ian Robinson
 
New Post
8/3/2011 2:55 PM
 
Mark DNN is open source so there is not such thing as a jailbreak version. The good news for you as a UX pro is that you can still upload modules the old fashion way (upload them from your computer no matter where you bought/downloaded them) and every label in the system is easily changed using the built in language editor. Don't like the term "common"? Change it.

I also don't understand point 1. Modules (extensions) are functional code. Containers are a UI component of the skin which style the module. Can you elaborate?


Steven Webster
Manager, Community Platform
F5 Networks, DevCentral
 
New Post
8/4/2011 1:53 AM
 
Mark - I'm not sure if you're relatively new to DNN or not.
The term 'module' is hopelessly overloaded, I'll grant you that.  It's hard to know a way forwards from this, but I expect over time people will begin to use the term 'extension', especially as more modules and skins get blended together to provide entire solutions (which is why extension replaces module, to allow for more comprehensive packages of changes to be installed as a whole unit).  The terms of a mature platform inevitably come under strain as original definitions get muddied with time and expansion. It's hard to get people to give up the terms they first learnt, even when they are no longer relevant.  This is familiar to anyone who has ever heard the term 'lead pencil', which, of course, contains no lead.  So yes, a concerted effort needs to be made with documentation and internal help to clarify terms, but ultimately it's a quirk of the platform that newcomers will have to learn.  Ideal? no.  Reality? yes.

The reason for the 'tight integration' of Snowcovered is because Snowcovered is wholly owned by DNN Corp.  My understanding is the branding on this will be refreshed in the coming months to make this relationship clearer.  Far from being an attempt to lock everyone in, it's made so that people can easily find extensions for their install.  One of the problems many newcomers had was trying to navigate their way through a morass of availble extensions, unsure of what works with what version, and what the actual process is for each individual download.  By integrating Snowcovered and DNN Forge into the extensions list, a degree of order is brought into this area.  If it appears on the list, it is supposed to be compatible with the version you are looking at.    There is only one commercial reseller of extensions, and snowcovered is it.  So it's hardly a way of excluding any other resellers.  Module vendors are free to market themselves outside of the platform as before, and you can install extensions in the same way as before.  However, if you want to access to eyeballs you need to be on the list, and to be on the list you have to at least meet a minimum set of information about your extension in terms of compatibility and other information.  Each vendor needs to make a decision if they prefer to be associated with snowcovered or not.

There is an issue with the trust factor of installing direct from a site down to your application, but this is the way many platforms are going and it's what the userbase wants.  Microsoft may not have tight downloadable app-store like capabilities with Windows, but you can bet their redmond campus they wish they did.   Apple has shown what the benefits of an orderly market like this is, and every other platform is working towards copying that pattern.  Whether you personally agree with that or not is a matter for discussion, but it's a trend that is happening and DNN is just a part of that. 

I agree that the possibility of one-click installs from forge or snowcovered hightens risk for the installee.  Maybe the way forwards is an automatic site backup before install.  But in any case, if someone wants to be malicious with a module, no amount of virus scanning is going to help because you're effectively installing code onto a server with the users explicit permission.  It doesn't have to have a virus signature in that respect because the user grants permission for the module to get loaded and run.  Either that permission comes from the 'do you want to download and install this' or 'do you want to install this' - but either way the module is getting installed.  It's an imperfect world but the one in which we live.  The only way to avoid any malicious code is to not install anything at all.  Indeed there are some DNN installs that have the capabiltiy removed for just that reason.

The most important part that seems to have slipped past you on your inspection of DNN 6 is that it is still very much a free and open source platform.  You can pull it apart, hack it about, wrap it in a bright pink skin or do whatever you want.  It's trivially easy to remove the module integration page if that is what you want.  The other great thing about it being open source is that you can add constructive help by adding information to the Wiki, adding suggestions to gemini, or developing new skins or UI widgets for the platform.
 
New Post
8/4/2011 5:00 AM
 
1. As others pointed out over time terminology has changed (for those of us around long enough we'll remember modules being known as "private assemblies"). When 5.0 was released and contained a substantially overhauled installer (known as the extensions installer), we introduced the "extensions" terminology .A module is just a type of extension, as is a skin and each has their own separate extension installer (as do other types such as skinobjects, providers, languagepacks etc.)

2. 6.0 is only out a few weeks, im sure we'll be making changes to this area - as an opensource project we often follow the methodology of get it done, get it right, get it fast. I think your suggestion is a good one, but its not one I recall anyone making before despite thousands of beta downloads. Please log it as an enhancement request at support.dotnetnuke.com . Note: we do try to help out users by remembering settings, you'll notice that on any page that contains the new forms patterns of tabs and panels that these all set cookies to persist their last remember selections when you revisit them.

3. There are a number of reasons for the extensions catalog but one of the most important is discoverability -new (and even experienced) users often dont know where to find new extensions and this will help greatly, plus the combined view makes comparisons across muliple sources much easier.At this point in time we aggregate 2 catalogs - from forge (couple of hundred free skins and modules) and from snowcovered. In time we'll likely aggregate other resources we have access to e.g. free language packs from dotnetnuke.com. Please note extensions can still be accessed as they always were e.g. download from the forge/snowcovered.com to your local computer and then upload to the website to install.

Regarding your suggestion to use ajax it's not viable in this scenario as it downloads to the client - we use the webrequest to download to the server so the component can be installed without having to upload the file from the client computer.There are other reasons we use server requests as well e.g as we need to make autheticated connections and post sensitive information via SSL -whilst we could do this on the client, leaking of sensitive details due to them being rendered in the client (and hence available in browser tempoary internet files) means this was not viable

4. the 6.0 manuals can be downloaded from http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Resources/M... ,i believe they were published yesterday. Normally the updated manual comes with the release, but due to the large size of 6.0 it was a few days late, sorry for any inconvenience.

Thanks.


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HomeHomeGetting StartedGetting StartedNew to DNN Plat...New to DNN Plat...DNN 6 is a very frustrating overall user-experience! Waiting on DNN 6 jailbreak version.DNN 6 is a very frustrating overall user-experience! Waiting on DNN 6 jailbreak version.


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