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10/8/2012 9:25 AM
 
Richard Howells


Richard Howells's Avatar

www.dynamisys.co.uk
Joined: 3/26/2006
Posts: 2001
Hi Will,

It's an issue for Michael, for Support Novado, for this user http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Resources/F......, and for me!

I reported it in Gemini...

http://support.dotnetnuke.com/issue/V...

... but the devs think it's only me. So it can be ignored as not affecting any significant number of users. Ok, that's true, but Michael has hacked his database, and (I guess) will have to keep hacking it. Mine is broken - I have to keep hacking it. These other two users presumably have broken databases. There will be a crop of others who just think that DNN is supposed to not work properly after an upgrade.

I guess we can all be ignored. The fact seems to be that at least one DNN upgrade is broken.

As there is no documentation about how those tables in the DB are supposed to work together it's pretty hard for anyone on the outside to reverse engineer.
Best wishes,
- Richard
Agile Development Consultant, Practitioner, and Trainer
www.dynamisys.co.uk
 
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10/8/2012 10:00 AM
 
Richard Howells


Richard Howells's Avatar

www.dynamisys.co.uk
Joined: 3/26/2006
Posts: 2001
I forgot to ask for notification of replies.
Best wishes,
- Richard
Agile Development Consultant, Practitioner, and Trainer
www.dynamisys.co.uk
 
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10/8/2012 10:53 AM
 
Will Strohl


Will Strohl's Avatar

Will Strohl's Avatar

Will Strohl's Avatar

Will Strohl's Avatar

Will Strohl's Avatar

Will Strohl's Avatar

https://upendoventures.com
Joined: 3/1/2005
Posts: 2884

There's a good reason why the database is not documented at all and the API has documentation.  The database has never been considered to be part of the API.  As such, any manual changes to the core tables or procedures would not be advised, as upgrades could become difficult or impossible, depending on the changes you make.  As you have found, this could potentially lead to any number of issues.

The only way to truly get back to a core DB is to start from a clean installation and import your content without modifying the database schema in any way.  This can be done manually, with interns, or by scripting the database import.

In the future, if you need to do anything with the database besides read the data or use the existing stored procedures, you should use the API and not modify the database directly.

Will Strohl

Upendo Ventures Upendo Ventures
DNN experts since 2003
Official provider of the Hotcakes Commerce Cloud and SLA support
 
New Post
10/8/2012 11:48 AM
 
Richard Howells


Richard Howells's Avatar

www.dynamisys.co.uk
Joined: 3/26/2006
Posts: 2001
Hi Will,

Thanks for taking an interest.

I think you may be missing my point. Here is what happened to me.

Sometime after a standard upgrade I discovered that if I installed a new module it didn't show in the modules dialog. Prior to this there were NO manual changes of any kind in the database. I am completely anal about the upgrades. If they don't run clean then I recover from backup and clean things until they do.

I am convinced that the upgrade broke my database. Sadly I didn't discover it until after the old database had long fallen out of the backup cycle. So I am unable to prove it.

It is only since then that I have had to manually hack entries in to the database so that I can keep the site running at all.

I DO NOT expect support for manual hacks to the database. But as I have been refused support after the upgrade broke my database, some database documentation might have allowed me to get the DB correct again.

Currently I am abandoned in a position where DNN support will not help me. I can only help myself through painstakingly reverse engineering the stored procedures and guesswork.

It now seems that there are other people in this same, abandoned, position.
Best wishes,
- Richard
Agile Development Consultant, Practitioner, and Trainer
www.dynamisys.co.uk
 
New Post
10/9/2012 9:10 AM
 
Michael Tobisch


Michael Tobisch's Avatar

https://www.dnnwerk.at
Joined: 6/27/2005
Posts: 2083
I can't but agree with Richard. Obviously the issue is not in the database, but somewhere in the API and/or upgrade process.

After upgrading and everything is running fine it can last weeks until you try to install a new module anc check that this happens - and the only way to keep things alive and running is to "hack" the database (I would not call it "hack", I did nothing but added a few records...). If there would be any help, I could check the stored procedures involved in the module installer, but I do not have time to read the source code and check line by line to find the error. This should be task of the team, and I am ready to compare things as they should be with the things I have - if only someone would tell me the first ones.

Best wishes
Michael

Michael Tobisch
DNN★MVP

dnn-Connect.org - The most vibrant community around the DNN-platform
 
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