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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Very sad, what is happening in here... :(Very sad, what is happening in here... :(
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12/5/2013 12:59 AM
 
Hey Will,

FWIW I been around dnn since 2003 - and contribute as much as - or sometimes more than - personal time really allows - those 1800+ forum posts didn't just get there on their own or the bug and issue posts in tracker - or the recent github submission attempts. I have built and configured dnn sites on pretty much every form of imaginable platform and yes get the many odd and weird combinations of issues that can cause grief.

But regardless - I guess - yes - what we are talking about here is perceptions and perspectives.

- when it "looks" like no one at DNNSoftware has bothered to check in 5 months that the version of DNN that they are telling "every new user trying to download DNN for themselves" to install via the DNN official community download page, is old and very much out of date - then the perception is well - one that would seem to indicate to anyone that cared to notice that there is maybe some lack of interest or concern in the community version.

And the result is to a certain extent - threads like this one - http://www.dnnsoftware.com/forums/for.... - where well for starters the people trying to offer suggestions would at least assume - along with the user - that the versions of DNN are the latest and most up to date,

The users questions and concerns in that case seem valid - he is running a clean version of windows in a VM - and running the webmatix install - he makes a pretty valid assumption that all the required dependencies should be installed by the installer and work on hia valid vanilla system and that as an end result he should get a running dnn web site.

From the user perspective - things must be wrong with the installer - and his perception is that its the DNN Official Installer on the DNN site. Its DNN that looks bad - not Microsoft. This is a user that has had DNN sites hosted before - but now wants to go further - but is at the point of going - this is ALL to hard, time to walk away. And that again is surely not GOOD for DNN - because it is all about perceptions.

Westa
 
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12/5/2013 1:37 AM
 

A good installer should be checking for all the dependencies and make sure they are present with the correct permissions and versions before the installer installs the software and the checking should display error messages with all failed findings. This will save the company (and the user) time and money from providing support which could have been avoided.

Personally I think when a software fails on a vanilla basic hardware, the developer(s) was lazy and shortsighted because they didn't take proactive steps.

 

 
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12/5/2013 9:56 AM
 

FYI I checked with the release team and they will be pushing 7.2.0 as a package to the Microsoft WebMatrix team -it seems 7.1.2 was missed (or not applied for some reason - sometimes MS can't or wont accept an update, this is often beyond our control).

Regarding the points about failing with default setups, we feel your pain and are equally frustrated. Typically we are relaxed about moving our pre-requisites, but with DNN 7 we changed the prerequisites (http://www.dnnsoftware.com/blog/cid/1...)  and that seems to have caught some people out (I've helped a number of IIS6, sql 2005 etc. users), so it's always a good idea to check that you have those in place.

One additional, and unintended prerequisite was that webservers be correctly patched and up to date - the prime reason behind this was the introduction of the advanced url provider, which supports extensionless urls. Whilst this works seamlessly for almost all users, a non-trivial amount have had issues. In nearly every case installing http://support.microsoft.com/kb/980368 resolves the issue (that hotfix has been out for 3 years so I would hope most installs would have it applied already). Due to the failure happening at the IIS level there is no good way to catch the problem (short of writing our own client installer as WebMatrix doesn't check for or offer it), meaning our only options were to switch to the basic provider (and therefore deprive the majority of people who would not have the issue), or to leave it in place and suggest it to users (e.g. in articles such as http://www.dnnsoftware.com/wiki/Page/... ) . We've also worked with Microsoft to enabled comment responses on codeplex so we can alert people if we see this or other known issues (e.g. you can see some responses to questions on codeplex already - https://dotnetnuke.codeplex.com/relea...)


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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12/5/2013 3:52 PM
 

As someone who has to be considered a "newbie" on DNN I would like to give my opinion on "the state of affairs".

Actually I have a background.
Back in early 2003 I was reading on Microsoft Website about a fictitious portal called ISpyPortal. I was fascinated with how easy it seems to be to set up a portal utilizing Microsoft framework techniques such as membership and user profiling, creating a store and all you need for a modern top-of-the art site back in 2003.
I printed the “How-to-get-started”, had a hot chicken vindaloo for lunch, but was maybe sweating even more out of the excitement when planning in my head all those fantastic websites I would build. And… after that lunch the paper went into my drawer and has forever stayed there…until a year ago or so.

I installed DNN and was again blown away of how easy it was to have it up and running. I helped some friends and relatives to set up easy un-complicated sites and showed them how they can add content to it.

The reason I choose DNN is that I have grown up with Microsoft techniques like Visual Basic, IIS, MS SQL and later C#.
Once, a million years ago, I made a web-site using Active Server Pages and oh boy what a mess of spaghetti-code that was! After that experience I stayed well away from any solutions using PHP, which at least then I considered a messy scripting language, and that allergic feeling extended to any L-A-M-P solutions.

Now I finally have a chance to set up a sort of semi-professional site within my company, an European company with some 15 000 employees in several countries. But, hey, still a free community-driven site, even though in my company the managers are very suspicious of anything that doesn’t carry a million dollar bill tag, isn’t part of IBM or SAP or doesn’t have sales guys with posh PowerPoint and fancy suites :-)
So our CMS commercial solutions are based on Episerver and IBM Social.
I myself think that I can do a better site with DNN than with those commercial alternatives, but let’s see.

I am getting doubts though, if I have made the right choice.
Something that did really rock my beliefs was when one of the persons I really respect in the industry, Paul Thurrot, changed his CMS system from DNN to Drupal!
I mean, come on, the guy behind www.winsupersite.com , the bastion for all things Microsoft saying:

About one month ago, we upgraded the SuperSite to a completely new infrastructure based on Drupal, replacing the Dot Net Nuke (DNN) content management system we had used for the previous two years.
Drupal just makes it easier. This system is wonderful, and while you’ll never see the backend stuff, suffice to say it makes my life a lot easier. I’m amazed by how much better it is. Night and day.

Drupal just makes it easier. This system is wonderful, and while you’ll never see the backend stuff, suffice to say it makes my life a lot easier. I’m amazed by how much better it is. Night and day.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/mailbag-december-9-2012

What worries me as a new user and part of the DNN community is whether the “rats are abandoning the ship and I am instead climbing aboard”.

Worrying signs that I see:

 

  • Books written about DNN are all quite many years old. The latest commercial release I could find was from 2008, that is almost 6 years ago! Books are released this month about Drupal and Wordpress latest releases, something indicating that the interest is high for these products.
  • The Community Showcase part of the DNN website does not seem to be very active with new contributions of new sites. That worries me, as a contrast when I read about Mariette Knap’s great site in http://www.dnnsoftware.com/forums/for... ,that was a huge vitamin injection to me and inspiration as to what one can still do with DNN community edition. I want more inspiration like that!
  • There are not many new modules and skins coming into the DNN Forge. There are of course true gems there, like the DNN Blog, which is a jaw-dropper as well as the Yet Another Forum (YAF) to name a few, but I do believe that for the community to thrive it needs a very active base of contributors that have no commercial interest in the product, just a fanatic interest and dedication.
  • The DNN site itself. I feel alienated since the big make-over to emphasize EVOQ. I understand that the company DNN Corp. wants to make money. And I think it was a wise decision to have a commercial offering with a different name than DNN Community edition. But why hide the community deep down in the menus of the site? Trust me, this is a serious mistake! The fan-base of dedicated DNN community followers is the guarantee of success for any commercial adventure. And if you can’t make a first-time user aware of that DNN is a totally free alternative in 5 seconds when entering the site, better than any Drupal, Wordpress or Joomla alternative out there, then that person will move ahead to exactly those alternatives I just mentioned.

DNN community edition is still an unique offering. At least an old Bill Gate-follower like me believes that. Or is there any other free CMS system offered that is based on dot-net, C#, IIS and SQL server?
I think that the release I am running, 7.1.2, is mature and stable, any bugs found or mis-configuration made by me are usually sorted out by the outstanding people on this forum (if you can find it hidden deep away in the menu system of DNN website…), it really deserves a much bigger audience than it has today – it should be bigger than Drupal and Wordpress if you ask me.

So, how to conclude? Maybe to quote a guy that I as an atheist don’t normally pay attention to, called Jesus:

John, chapter 6:

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?

Yeah, cheesy, isn’t it? As a DNN enthusiast I have read this whole thread, and agree with all the criticism, but let’s face it: Where else should we go? I guess that to continue this symbolism, then Paul Thurrot that I mention before is the Judas Iscariot who sold his soul to the Drupal-demon, can I really go that way, and face the PHP-devil, sitting on his throne of Linux, being torched by the flaming fire of MySQL in the realms of Apache-hell?

No way, I will upgrade my site to DNN 7.2.0 tonight and feel confident that I am using the best solution on the planet (but still make a backup of both file system and database first…)

 

 

 
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12/5/2013 4:12 PM
 

Some of this has been mentioned before, but probably worth mentioning:

  • I know of at least one DNN book project on the go
  • dnnsoftware.com will shortly be having a refresh that will fix a number of issues including navigation (can't give the full scope/date as im not on that team but I believe it's expected shortly)
  • there have been some issues with the forge (both at our and Microsoft's ends), but these have been worked on by both sides - we will shortly release an update that will improve the forge (particularly around identifying new projects and management of forge entries)


Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book Amazon US
 
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