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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...Forms/SQL Module Needed:  Suggestions?Forms/SQL Module Needed: Suggestions?
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6/7/2007 9:55 PM
 

I think that it really comes down to what you want to do with a forms module. Enterprise Forms is a very good product with good support but it has it's niche like many of the others. Enterprises Forms is known for it's workflow engine and the product is kind of geared in that direction.

Forms Master currently stores in XML as well but is fairly simple to use. I think your decision also involves how much time you want to invest. Now that I know your level of coding experience I would say that if you want to learn more about some of the "coding" as I did and want to invest in a product that can grow with you then Xmod is hands down the best choice. The Xmod online help files, documentation, developer support, and support from the forum community is what I have used over the last 8 mos. or so to learn the html, js, etc. that I needed to build the solution I wanted. I'm in the same boat as you with regards to coding knowledge. Xmod also has a code/template exchange where you can pick up some things already built and use it to learn as well. In addition there are other developers that build add-ons for Xmod.  Fat George's file upload add-on for Xmod is very nice - especially if you want to display pictures. He also has a brand new add-on out that allows you to connect with the DNN scheduler so you can run scheduled tasks on your Xmod data. Xmod calendar, and Google Maps for Xmod are others.

You won't have to worry about converting the XML files as Xmod 5 will export directly to CSV or Excel so you could use that until the right data managers are available to connect directly to sql tables. I'm fairly sure we are talking about days rather than weeks until Xmod 5 is released. Both Xmod 5 and the new version of Universal List (released today) will have rich text editors to make it easier to lay out your forms. Universal List and Indoo grid both have free test versions of their product so you can check them out.

It should be interesting to see which product ends up getting to finish line first. Xmod has the front end and is working on the back end. Universal List, Module Builder, Indoo Grid, etc. have the back end and are working on the front end. And Listx has the power and is working on the ease of use. I doubt it will be Listx at the finish line as they just have too many things on their plate. I think they will continue to be a programmer/developer type of product.

Greg

 
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6/7/2007 10:36 PM
 

pmichael wrote

Take a look at Enterprise Forms. It allows for nice form building with lots of good features (databinding of controls, etc, so you can populate a dropdownlist from data in tables) ... you can specify that the form data be stored in SQL tables (default is in xml string), and it will generate a table based upon how you define the elements in the form. You can create work flow based on your business needs, and there is a report builder that allows you to build multiple reports against the same table, also allowing for inputting parameters and filtering for search results.

I'd be lying if I didn't say it has a bit of a learning curve ... but I've been able to meet some unique needs with it because once the data is in the table, then I can build other modules, for example, that use that data when business needs take us beyond their report manager's capabilities.

Good support and improvements keep coming.

Another alternative, not so complex, and I think it does now or will soon also have ability to save to SQL table rather than XML fragments: Form Master. Great tool.

Yea, Forum Master is exactly what I am looking for, but when I watched the videos and did some reading, the reporting/filtering for searches aspect was not really covered (e.g., can I wire-up 2-3 dropdowns or a could radio buttons a user can check to query the data and produce a nice table of the data they selected, etc). From the videos, it looks very easy and exactly what I envision. The mention of SQL...but if SQL is on the horizon, this might be just what the doctor ordered. I've been struggling to figure out where the submit buttons are located in the code, so I also like I can change the generic vb button to a graphic and link it up with a few clicks...nice touch.

Enterprise forms did look more complicated, but doable...all the databinding is over my head and suspect it would take much, MUCH longer to get a simple working form with an option to query and generate a table based on user parameters.

Thanks for the leads, sir. I'm going to give Forum Master a serious look...

 
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6/7/2007 10:50 PM
 

[QUOTE]leazon wrote

I think that it really comes down to what you want to do with a forms module. Enterprise Forms is a very good product with good support but it has it's niche like many of the others. Enterprises Forms is known for it's workflow engine and the product is kind of geared in that direction.[quote]

At this point, I think I have been spending too much time spinning my wheels trying to learn everything at once--from playing with some of the source code to add my own custom buttons and the like to SEO theory and skinning and the like.  :)  I think I just need simple out the gate to get me going, but do see the benefits of getting something I can grow into, too.  I am willing to dedicate the time to learn the software, but hate to be 3-6 months behind schedule just trying to get a basic form and search feature on the site.

Again, I am just looking for a simple form that has a few fields (using form modules for example...a drop-down of names, perhaps a 1-5 radio button string to rate it, a yes/no checkbox option for recommend it to other, etc), then have a search option below that lets users query the db by, say, ratings >3 and it produces a table/report with the records.  I'm not great with the jargon, but that's the best I can describe it.  :)  Once I am up and running, I will then take the time to figure all of this stuff out...so I guess I need ease out of the gate but room to grow as time permits me to roll up my sleeves and learn what's happening behind the scenes.

Would a basic setup like I described above be as easy with XMod as it looks to be with Form Master?  I posted some sql questions on the Xmod site; think I need to revist and dig a little deeper.  It does receive great reviews and was the top selling module out there at one point (might still be)...but want to ensure I can get the job done with no skills whatsoever.  :)

Thanks for all the info...good stuff.  I'll digest it all over the weekend and keep reviewing the options.  ListX did seem way beyond the scope of what I want to do and more for the developer with data demands, so I think Forum Master and XMod are worth consideration.

 

 
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6/8/2007 7:50 PM
 

Regarding Enterprise Forms ... the databinding is an option, not a requirement, and is something you could grow into down the road. Here's an example of how I used it: Had a survey-type form with lots of questions and all of the answer options were the same: Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Neutral, Agree, Strongly Agree.

Now I could have created radiobutton responses manually for each question. Or I could put these responses into a database table, name them as a group, and then use a stored procedure (GetOptions('Ngroup")) ... where "Ngroup" is in the GroupName column. Behind the scenes, the stored proc gets these five options and binds them to the radiobutton control. Instead of manually creating the radiobuttonlist for each question, I just enter (GetOptions('Ngroup")) in the databind panel. Quite a time saver.

So yes - this may be a bit over your head at the moment, but see that someday it wouldn't, and that it would become useful. In the meantime, you can roll it all manually just like in Form Master.

Form Master is also develping or has developed the ability to databind. But in both cases it will be optional; you can create the radio buttons right in the form designer in each case.

Regarding work flow in Enterprise Forms - it also is optional - sort of - you can create a non-work flow work flow which is just a simple submit.

The reason I mentioned Enterprise Forms was the indication in the initial post that storing the results of the form submission in an SQL table was desirable. Since Enterprise Forms can do that, I have then been able to use the data in that table for other modules or purposes.

Example: I have some forms that are related but submitted by different players. One is submitted by a student, and dwhen submitted, an email is generated to a guidance counselor who comes to fill out another form ... he or she knows the student's portal ID because it was sent in the email ... and the guidance counselor has to enter it in the form along with other information.

Now I can do a join on the two tables based on the ownerid of the student's form, and the student id of the guidance counselor's form. This is beyond normal reporting needs and beyond what Enterprise Forms can offer, but is possible because the data is in tables.

Having the data in a table isn't necessary only for reporting, as another person pointed out; you can get data from XML fragments into Excel, csv, etc. But there are other things you might want to do with data that isn't strictly pulling out such reports, and that is when it is so handy to have it in a table.

Not trying to over-argue the case for Enterprise Forms, just giving a glimpse at what I've been able to do with it that made me think of it in response to your post.

Form Master is easier to learn, less complex, Steve is very responsive to good feature requests, and it is moving in the direction of including possibilities for work flow as well. There are some things I like better about Form Master, actually. Just had some needs that required the greater complexity of Enterprise Forms. It's always a pleasure to use Form Master, and I've always plugged it when given the opportunity.

Note: Form Master, not Forum Master. I found myself doing the same typo a couple days ago so I had to chuckle when I saw it here.


pmgerholdt
 
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6/8/2007 7:55 PM
 

I suggest you register on the Form Master site, and ask about the reporting capabilities. This is where Enterprise Forms is very strong, but I think all that is available in Form Master out of the box is a date range search of the whole data, and ability to download into csv, Excel, view online, delete ... Not sure if he has created any more powerful search or filter features. Enterprise Forms is very strong there, but that's also my weakest area in Enterprise Forms; I haven't mastered the Report Manager module at all ... mostly because I had other unique needs to use the data in different ways.

After reading your most recent post, Terp, I'd suggest Form Master over Enterprise Forms at this point. I license and use both. I think XMod may take you longer to learn, but that you can probably do the same thing and more down the road.

I licensed XMod but have yet to use it, oddly enough.


pmgerholdt
 
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