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www.berrydigital.com.au
Joined: 1/23/2004
Posts: 1961
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Thanks David for your comment there - NO Cathal - I'm not trying to be antagonistic - Remember I have also sat on the other side of the fence - eg. Core Team - I know a little on how the system works.
Your comment here -
2. "offers of many hundreds of thousand of dollars to get their infrastructure right" - news to me, and I'm sure news to the corp members -i have no idea where you're getting this from Nina
>> This was in response to the offers made by Flatburger a few years ago when they offered DNN a SIGNIFICANT amount of money to be involved in the marketing, but it was rejected. Further to that - anyone who had relationship with the company was refused advertising on the DNN site, and one very bright young guy who was a contributor here was shown his marching shoes and his whole entity on here was removed virtually overnight. You should remember that Cathal - it caused such an uproar because the hierarchy didn't like how Flatburger were approaching their 'opportunities'.
I do have several contacts who raise issues with me on a regular basis regarding DNN and it's direction and I generally maintain a positive and enthusiastic attitude and you will find that I rarely if ever publicise any of my comments and thoughts here, but I am entitled to an opinion and entitled to ask questions regarding that email.. oh and the second email apologising for the first email two hours later with different information - and I see signficant elements that give me and many others, good reason to question - particularly around security - here's how I read it - if I fork out 2,000 per year - you will give me more guarantee that the build is more secure, because it says.. and i quote - as per email sent by Tom -
"
with added security, support and stability features" -
The very fact the emails ,mention security - added security - without clarifying what it really means is either a bad choice of words, OR there is something different, hence.. you are adding something because you pay, but have less if you don't. Since when was 'added security' something that had to be paid for?? I would be horrified to think that the team would be profitting on things like SECURITY.. so either change the words - or clarify the statement.
Perhaps Cathal you can you please clear it all up - what does 'with added secuity' really mean? It would help alot.
DotNetNuke Professional is priced at $1,999 per year, per instance. An instance of DotNetNuke Professional is defined as one copy of the product in memory.
ONE SINGLE INSTANCE..
Is there a discount for volume?
Nina Meiers
Nina Meiers My Little Website
If it's on DNN, I fix, build, deploy, support,skin, host, design, consult, implement, integrate and done since 2003.
Who am I? Just a city chic, having a crack at organic berry farming.. and creating awesome websites.
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www.cathal.co.uk
Joined: 4/9/2003
Posts: 9676
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DavidToohey wrote
| cathal connolly wrote
| Nina Meiers wrote
I would be curious to know how the security thing works - ... more secure than the CE version? Does that mean the public will be getting a second rate version when it comes to security? They will knowingly hold back security releases from the public because we choose to use the free one..
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All security analysis is done on the core repository and all fixes go into it. I'm hoping this was a genuine question and not an attempt to cause some fear-uncertainty-doubt. As the person primarily responsible for doing the security analysis of core and modules, as well as making the majority of security related fixes/bulletins/documentation etc, I find any sort of suggestion that I would hold back security releases to help the corp make money very insulting.
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Cathal
I really don't think Nina was making any attempt to raise doubt as... to be honest DNN Corp is raising this doubt with everything i am reading.
As you would find such a suggestion insulting this is something you really need to look at the DNN Corp as I am getting a strong feeling the points Nina mentions regarding security are throughout the wording used by DNN Corp.
Per emails sent out from DNN Corp:
DotNetNuke Professional Edition contains all the powerful, usable and extensible features that have made the DotNetNuke Framework so successful, with added security, support and stability features required by many businesses for mission-critical environments.
As soon as I read this I had significant concerns raised and that had absolutely nothing to do with what Nina has said. What you are saying now contradicts this so I really don't know what to think...
Is this core publicly available with all security analysis and fixes? (as you say here)
or
Does the DotNetNuke Professional Edition contain added security? (as the DNN Corp are telling others via email)
On another note, which does relate to all of this when considering business decisions... the cost of the PE and being for small to large businesses is simply beyond the scope of many small businesses, particularly my one in Poland.
What really is the difference with the Professional Edition? Although my very first thought before hearing any details had been some excitement of additional affordable extras, for me now I am only seeing concerns being raised and getting a feeling things will head backwords for Community Edition users (core community modules like the Forums already barely surviving).
David,
They valid questions, but at this point only DNN Corp can provide the answers, lets wait for further defintition from them before leaping to any assumptions. Reading the new features list from the email supplied, the only thing I can see regarding security is "Security and update email notifications" , so that seems to be the additional security meant. Proactive notification of security alerts would be a valuable service to many businesses IMO
Cathal
Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book
Amazon US
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www.cathal.co.uk
Joined: 4/9/2003
Posts: 9676
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Nina, whilst you were on the core, it's changed dramatically since then. Also ,it's been a few years since your involvement and pre-dated any of the work on getting funding, so its not really a valid assumption to think that things work the same as they did back in your day.
Regarding flatburger, I'm not privy to the details of any offering they made, i'll just simply say that DNN have the right to determine who they do business with. It's not hard to conceive of a case where the offering from someone would be incompatible with the aims of the corp e.g. I could offer to buy your business for a lot of money, but add conditions that might make that offering impossible for you to consider.
Regarding the other questions, I can't clear them up, only the Corp. can provide the answers, anything else is speculation. My original reason for posting on this thread was that I saw a lot of idle speculation, in many cases picking up only phrases and leaping to assumptions. This kind of thing doesn't help anyone IMO. I appreciate that people want concrete answers and better definition of what things mean, but my point is that only the Corp. can give those answers, lets just wait a bit and see what further definition they provide. Also, no matter what they say, I'd imagine that people will judge them by their actions, after a cycle or two of CE/PE releases, people will have a concrete understanding of what PE is.
Personally I'd have preferred if all that material was available before the program began (the more material available, the less questions IMO), but it's not uncommon for it not to be - this is not anything malicious, it simply takes time. I spend time in other communities such as drupal, and they went through the same process -in fact they even had a series of "beta's" of their support offering, giving them the chance to alter their offering many times in relative privacy, before making a "public" offering - there was a substantial period of time before the figures where publically known, and even longer before details such as SLA were available. This caused similar problems in their community, though to a lesser degree as people in the LAMP arena are more accustomed to sucessful OS projects going through this process.
Cathal
Buy the new Professional DNN7: Open Source .NET CMS Platform book
Amazon US
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Joined: 5/13/2005
Posts: 17
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I have been a lurker in the forums for years (which I really need to work on) and DNN is a platform which I have used within lab projects for teaching information system and for some community projects. I read the same released information as everyone else and I do agree this rollout has not been handled as well as it could have. So I understand the concern being expressed but not the panic. So I figure if people can speculate on the worst-case scenario, I suppose I could speculate on the best-case scenario for PE versus CE.
We have already established that the PE and CE code base are the same. We read that there would be a certified version which is a few versions behind the latest and greatest. This version is the same one available to the community. So what's the reasoning behind a certified version then? To me, that just means that your support package is based on that version. You don't get anything special in the code base but you know that version is the one that DNN provides support for. If you work for a large corporation which is fond of checklists, you can put a check next to stability.
Why would an organization pay $2000 for the PE version then? Same day support is big. Having your requests go to the top of the line would be big. Suppose you have a modification that would really make a difference for your organization. You figure it would take two weeks. That would cost your organization more than $2000. You call support and find out that you can save a week by utilizing part of the framework that you didn't know about before. Not only that, but perhaps the modification you are suggesting would be beneficial for the whole platform. Because of this, DNN makes a patch for your certified version AND, of course, implements it in the very next community version. Plus, all the other larger organization with similar needs are clamoring for other changes which also benefit you. Sure, those changes also benefit the community for free but your needs are being met.
Remember, this is speculation but I could see this happening. The community would have to wait for the next release which could take months because of how the development cycle goes but the PE version could get needed functionality a lot sooner. Plus, it is specifically the functionality THEY need.
Documentation? If I were trying to create a distinction between PE documentation and CE documentation it would be the ability to easily customize and brand the documentation. Online documentation would be available to all but PE documentation would let you do token replacement and branding to make your own help pages for your organization. You could even seamlessly add text and pictures to your documentation where you want to customize it for your users whether it is in a particular help article or an entirely separate article. When updates are made to the generic community version, updates are made to your version.
I am just speculating, of course, and making assumptions. Again, the community benefits but the PE version has added value for larger organizations.
It might be an interesting spin to this thread if people started commenting on what would make the PE version worth $2000. How can this be accomplished where the community version benefits yet the professional version has some key features? Let your imaginations run wild...
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