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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...DNN doesnDNN doesn't get high marks among CMS's
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3/26/2009 6:35 PM
 

Alex.. why don't you take a breather from DNN work. You seem to be stressed out or overworked. You keep showing your anger when you see 'negative' comments and lately I don't like the way you reply to my posts.

As a DNN user I have the right to talk about what I don't like about it. Using a free software doesn't make me less of a user.

I use the forums to express my opinions. I debate about proposed features. If everyone just uses Gemini and goes home, the forums will be pretty dead and to the ousider, DNN would like an abandoned project. How else are we going to have a discussion about features? How many people follow Gemini on a regular basis compared with the forums?

It saddens me when I read about bad experiences from ex-DNN users on other sites who decided to use something else. I always want to know why they didn't like it. Even though I didn't develop DNN, I still consider it as a pet projecy of mine.

I would like to contribute code and I  love to produce my own module. I am just too busy. My free time is barely enough for the forums :)

 

 
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3/26/2009 9:17 PM
 

Perhaps what the project needs is a public Wish List.  A place where people can suggest UI improvements, feature additions and then talk about them and vote on them.  The core would then have some tangible public feedback.  Developers tend to get blind to the UI they have created, they get too used to it or something and improvements are slow to come.

DNN is a framework and most everything you do from the UI is manipulating data in tables. I saw a commercial module that was a control panel of sorts for controlling what modules are on what page and offered a new way to do mundane tasks.  I did not buy this module, but I might some day if a customer's site content gets hard to manage.  Without any programming at all, you can buy a few modules and generally get what you want and the whole platform is improved making it more CMS-like.

My biggest annoyance with the UI revolves around sorting things.  Reordering menus is painful when you are on a anything less than a 10-mb connection but I can go into the tables in SQL server and type the numbers manually if I am in a hurry, or I could source out a module that would improve this.  I used to program, now I buy stuff.

Mike

 

 
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3/26/2009 10:58 PM
 

>On PokerDIY (a social networking web-app) I am the only person who ever admins it so I don't mind about the installer, modules, settings etc. I want the end->user UI (login/sign up forms/edit profile/tooltips/help experience to improve)...

Normally for me that also applies on most of my client sites - however on a current job - a Qantas ex crew site I have several admins -page editors, link editors forum editors etc there is over 8 levels of admins most having their first time in admin functions. Generally admin functions are done by consultants and or programmers and I think that is reflected in the code and finish of the product - DNN needs to come up to the higher commercial product level in all its aspects especially now it has gone commercial. True one can change the tool tips from a short repeat of the actual label to a more detailed help decriptive of the label., It needs probably now to call a halt to the forward thrust of having every thing but the kitchen sink in it and look at the use and users of the product. Help text is still fairly outdated etc etc.

Maybe you find the dumbest user out there and sit him down and tell him to administer the site while you look on with a notepad. - even if you look back over the forums you will see simple mistakes being made over and over - mainly due it would appear not to no documentation but documentation that is not written for the true end user but the developer or programmer -  even in these mission critical enterprises that will buy PE it still comes down to an employee that may have no programming knowledge or not be framework savvy to administer and use the package.

The best package in the world will suffer if it fails to handle the average end user - any one that has ran a software house will know that the most labor intensive task is to develop the UI and supporting docs to a level that meets the outside world. While we argue about  the question of is DNN a CMS or is another package better then DNN the framework creeps on leaving the true end user well behind in his understanding of how to use the product.

DNN is not a cms it is a site builder at its lower level - probably the level most used by the mass of users out there - it is a programming framework for those that wish to delevep their own product or extent DNN into areas that the core team has no time or wants to go. It would be nice if it was a CMS

It is ok for the Corp to say that there are so many thousand sites out there using DNN - however how many are using out of the box DNN how many have had changes to the framework how many have had UI staff rewrite the help and tool tips or redesign the User Interface = with my clients I redesign the gui - in most admin cases you do only need to enter or change a small number of the entries on an admin page - so I have what we call the 'fast track'  the labels of those fields that must be filled in are highlited with a yellow background to add a page you only need to enter 4 things - the ui is changed to bring those to the top of the page and they are highlited with the fast track color - this then covers about 90% of users who just want to create a new page. Same with module settings -basically only one section needs entry and that is the settings not for the module but for the type of module ie announcements

This is end user inter face design which in my opinion is not  fully considered. These are not bugs they are simply redesign factors so putting these on the bug tracker system is not the way to go - maybe we need a sperate forum where end user interface can be discussed and suggestions can be put forward.
 

If such things as tool tip design was considered and end user interactiobn was sort on such a forum then it would  be a benfit to the overall package and make it easier for us that make changes in our client packages to stay a lot closr to the out of the box framework especially when it come time to update the version.

Altho long now retired but my software house experience tells me that what a programmer thinks is a good end user GUI is usually a long way from what an end user thinks is a good GUI.

 

 

 
New Post
3/26/2009 11:08 PM
 

Salama wrote
 

Alex.. why don't you...

Well, Salama, you could have left out the first paragraph from your post and we'd ALL be better off.

How about using your limited free time to post something *positive* that moves things *forward*. The best thing about your initial post on this thread was the link you provided. It's an interesting site that I will probably visit again. Other than that, you really didn't do anything much except back up your truck and hit the dump switch.

If you see features that other platforms have that you think DNN should consider, why not write up a thread that provides a reason for consideration, a method for integration, and a strategy for inclusion?

You seem like a smart guy, why not go that route instead.


Eric Swanzey
www.swanzey.com
 
New Post
3/26/2009 11:14 PM
 

No need to be defensive, Alex. I am well aware of your previous life as a critic, and your current life as one who performs a labor of love. I appreciate and respect what you are doing. Nonetheless, you often write in a way which is abrasive. True, as Cathal mentioned, that online forums, like email, leave lots of room for mistunderstanding. But when it is fairly regular, one figures it is probably not exactly mistunderstanding.

Another post of yours that I read only moments before the one to which I reacted is quoted below. I think you could make your points in less hostile-appearing manner. In fact, I am sure you could. Instead of getting all defensive, how about you just give that some consideration.

You wrote this to someone who has posted here a total of 9 times:

Clearly you haven't looked at third party modules and expect everything to provided for you for free. Ventrian modules and Active Forums would have easily sorted you out, and there are other localization solutions I believe... although you don't state the requirement.

There are also third party store modules but I believe they vary in quality right now (not sure, I haven't had to do a store site for a while thankfully).

If you expect everything to be provided to you on a plate for free, then yes, I suggest you go elsewhere.

C'mon now, Alex.


pmgerholdt
 
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