Dan, Hi Nina here, while it's good to see that you've responded to the forums here, and obviously closely connected to the product, it's always a juggle to make people happy - I can tell you that wholeheartedly and I don't even write code..
I need to ask you a couple of questions, now that I have you here, and obviously it's drawing some interestd, comments, comparisons and gripes..(which you'll always have no matter what you do in life)
You mention that you have tracked down a hundred hours of issues relating to the DNN framework - isn't this part of software development processes? I'm not a coder, so I might be off track in my assumptions, we've only done literally thousands and thousands of skins, hundreds, if not at least a thousand installs of DNN over the last 6 years and we know, based on our experience of DNN, pretty much when an error occurs, unless it's on something new, where to look, mind you that's when it's on our servers, but we do not have the development infrastructure in place that I would think a company like yours would have simply for the fact there is no need.
It seems perhaps the reason you would have given Chris a discount on your offerings was to get your foot in the door with another developer which, I have also done, at times, given away alot of my time, knowledge and resources, to help get people over the line. Most of the time its worked and we've moved on to have great relationships but other times it's not, and we have to call that 'cost of business' and the risk we decided to to take when we embarked on the opportunity. I know very well that my request to have access your product for testing and trying out was knocked back because your company didn't feel that my company matched the calibre or requirements to use, promote or partner with your business, most likely because I was using Catalook and still am.
What I see which is the part that is the sticking point for me is the lack of actual happy clients, after at least 2? years? I think it's two, if not 3, where I remember in a thread how someone from ASPDNSF completely ripped into people who stated that Catalook or some other sofware might have been just as good alternative, and the comments, I might add where not becoming of a company trying to get their foot in the door. The thread implied that everyone else was second rate, not a serious player and you had done thousands of sites. I cannot deny the fact you've done thousands of sites, but where are the DNN ones? This is what we're talking about.
Your comment here - "We wouldn't have 10,000 sites running our software if we were." these are NOT DNN sites, this is the point.. it's like telling me it's simply fantastic for everyone who isn't running a DNN site.
I have read so many posts here that alarm me, and now we have ASPDNSF starting to step in and start publicly commenting on the client. Believe me, when I tell you this, it's not winning you friends. It never has, it never will and lays a visible legacy on people who search the forums about how you handle unhappy clients. I have had them too you know, and guess what - they whinge about my FREE stuff.. things I do out of my own time, that might not be perfect, and I have hung out to dry on some occasions.
People have posted here because they are concerned, they have invested, as an off the shelf product, nearly 1500.00(US and in AU it would be close to 2,800) before we get started - that's before they have a relationship with their clients, and now, when I read about all the work that you have done to help Chris Wylie, and you've given him 15,000 of freebies or whatever you call it, and others who have spent months and months trying to support your product but can't get things running, something really does require revisiting.
Sure I use Catalook, I have never promoted it's beauty, it's not a pretty out of the box solution, but it works, and has worked for years, and the biggest gripe we hear is it's complicated and ugly , NOT that it doesn't work, NOT that people have waited for one year to get something finished, NOT that overpriced NOT that the service is bad and never have I seen, no matter how pain in the butt the client may be, a nasty word made against a client in public, as I've seen here and it simply doesn't look good. But then again, perhaps the expectation of the product supplied by Catalook is less because it cost less in the first place, I don't know.
I personally think you need to do a couple of things.. Talk to Chris offline, because it doesn't take long for things to get personal and they do when people are frustrated, feeling ignored and disappointed. I don't think that Chris's comments are perfect, but it does show, along with the other threads here, you have some seriously unhappy people.
I also think may need to reassess how you deliver this product while it has problems, or perhaps consider selling a completely deployed build - ready to go with a list of do's and dont's - that way you will be in control of the build. While it's not a standard thing you do, it can eliminate lots of problems. I do alot of 'build and deploy' sites for clients and send them a ready to go site because we know DNN, and you know your product, so while you think perhaps it's going to take longer, the 15k of support probably won't be there and you will have a good record of your own instances and be able to verify that at hand over, it did work as expected.
I think DNN corp guys have been a little naiive promoting your product as they do, stating that it's the be all end all of ecommerce, because at the rate things are being posted here, it's the be all end of relationships between your customers and the product, when it really should not be. Outside DNN it does stand on it's own, it's a sterling, off the shelf product and I think that perhaps people are expecting, for the money, that same result as an off the shelf solution for DNN and it's not working.
Personally, if I had purchased the product, and then been asked to do a clean install without third party modules, I would have questioned it.. I most likely would have done so, to resolve a problem but I would have given you access or a list of the modules I'm using for you to test, NOT me - I'm not a beta tester of your software for 1500.00 and my time to find your problems. But you asked someone who's expecting your product to work like the 10,000 others you've built, and it doesn't. If we can't use third party modules, then why buy it? Why not just put it on a build of it's own and connect users to DNN instead? I would be really hesistant if such an advanced product such as yours now required me to test all my modules first means I'm beta testing your product again, and not that I don't believe we need people like this, I'm not expecting me to have to troubleshoot your product when I've been told it's the best product around.
Can you see how easy it is for people to be frustrated and annoyed. Sure I use Catalook, yes there have been problems, but I'm always wanting other products to succeed as it helps DNN get a better name, more acceptance.. yada yada - you know the story. I really hope you can provide a DNN solution that looks at good as your non DNN ones, AND we have a showcase of sites that were built using DNN and ASPDNSF from people who you are marketing to - It seems most of those who purchase your product are marketers and resellers - they know their clients, they buy what they feel is a quality product, they aren't looking for a cheap solution and are feeling let down.
Thanks for showing your presence here - it's not comfortable to be in the line of fire and my comments here were not to give you are hard time at all. I do see things from both sides of the fence you know as we all know nothing is black and white with software.
Nina Meiers