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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...DNN CSS Layout and AccessibilityDNN CSS Layout and Accessibility
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12/19/2006 12:28 PM
 

DNN relies heavily on table layout which as we all know is not good for accessibility. An increasing number of web sites are moving to a css only layout. I can see no reason not to move to a css layout as the default for DNN other than the need to refactor the existing modules. This would give more flexibility in the layout of web site.

 

Is there any chance that we will see a move towards css only modules within DNN? This would still allow people to create skins using table layout, if they wished, but would make it much easier to produce skins using css only for layout and thus producing a css only site

 
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12/19/2006 9:27 PM
 

This is being looked at and has been in the pipeline for some time now, but I believe we're getting much closer than we've been before in actually providing some optional skin choices. I'm working with Cathal on one at the moment as we speak.

As far as accessibility - you can still use tables, and I have been speaking with a couple of others on this topic - for those wanting to run a purely css based, no tables website, then there are quite a few modifications and restriction - due the module choice, and render using tables.

The good thing is that we're getting closer to better solutions - but that would be expected since it's been an ongoing question for that last several months.

There are some CSS based only skins around, but they do restrict you on what you do - as you have pointed out. You can also modify the core modules yourself, as others have done to remove the tables, but I can't give you advice on that area at this stage.

Nina Meiers

 


Nina Meiers My Little Website
If it's on DNN, I fix, build, deploy, support,skin, host, design, consult, implement, integrate and done since 2003.
Who am I? Just a city chic, having a crack at organic berry farming.. and creating awesome websites.
 
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12/21/2006 6:14 AM
 
 In the UK we are seeing more and more emphasis on accessibility. CSS web sites are seen as best practice, with content and presentation separated with (X)HTML and Style Sheets.

In April 2004 the British Standards Institute (BSI) conducted a formal investigation into the state of web accessibility in the UK. This revealved that 81% of web sites tested failed to comply with the simplest of WCAG recommendations (Level A).

As a direct result of this they commissioned the Publicly Available Specification (PAS 78) which, 'Outlines good practice in commissioning websites that are accessible to and used by disabled people'.

The PAS was launched on the 8th of March 2006 with following items being the highlights from it

  • The DRC are indicating that they will act upon legislation because there is no excuse for not complying now.
  • The W3C guidelines are the basis for compliance.
  • CSS web sites are seen as best practice, with content and presentation separated with (X)HTML and Style Sheets.
  • A site should be viewable at 800px x 600px resolution without horiztontal scrolling
  • Flash and PDF content can be used, but it must be used properly
  • Site Owners are responsible for their site, not the developers or software.
  • If your site isn't compatible, admit it and publish a date when you will fix it.

I would like to think that with DNN we can make it as easy as possible to  produce sites that are accessible and conform to  PAS 78 and similar recommendations.

As DNN is OpenSource are there guidelines for developers. If so I think these should recommend the use of CSS going forward rather than tables for layout.

 
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12/21/2006 7:18 AM
 

That was an interesting post - but what concerns me is this - Site Owners are responsible for their site, not the developers or software.

Doesn't that rule out using something like DNN - afterall you're completely reliant on the framework and that will never change, so you'll never be compliant... I hadn't read anything like this before so that's why I'm asking.. (not attacking  just asking ) 

There are elements commented here that can be fixed through minor changes, but to be honest, if you want the full use of DNN, and it uses tables or structure that isn't compliant, then you will have to remove them from the build - eg.delete the modules, so you basically are left with very few of the modules in the build.

I am currently working in depth with an education department, and we are rolling out some sites in stages, initially to bring over to DNN since they are thrilled with the functionality and administration side of things, but there have been concerns and question about accessibility and compatibility and comliancy - which seem to be very different depending on who you're talking to at the time.  What was interesting to note is that they are willing to turn out the sites, let us evaluate, then revisit and further refine - it may require some modifications, but we are now confident that at long last, we're seeing the possiblities of some really big changes as we work through live scenarios with companies who are willing to take changes in steps, rather than some instances I've seen where we are almost held to ransom because it's not perfect. 

In a nutshell I think there is plenty of room in this area to grow and once we see some good solid examples which have some documentation and 'how to do it' processes, we're going to see some enormous growth in the next 12 - 18 months.

Maybe not tomorrow, but as I said - we are so much closer now than ever, and when I look at how dnn was 4  years ago it is proving to be some very interesting times coming up.

I hope this gives you some insight and  I would be very interested in comments on how you handle that first point I raised.

Thanks for your post.

Nina Meiers


Nina Meiers My Little Website
If it's on DNN, I fix, build, deploy, support,skin, host, design, consult, implement, integrate and done since 2003.
Who am I? Just a city chic, having a crack at organic berry farming.. and creating awesome websites.
 
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12/21/2006 5:53 PM
 

FWIW I used to use the Rainbowportal CMS before moving on to DNN. They struggled to implement a "Zen Garden" CSS only approach to website rendering for at least 3 years. I don't know what happened in the end but there were some very clever people involved and some very heated arguments. Strikes me it would be a hard thing to do, given DNN (and Rainbowportal's) common ancestory.

Cheers.

 
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