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HomeHomeOur CommunityOur CommunityGeneral Discuss...General Discuss...To Joomla! or not to Joomla!:  DNN is the questionTo Joomla! or not to Joomla!: DNN is the question
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6/1/2007 9:26 AM
 
Let me preface my post by saying that my intent is not to start the infamous pee-ing contests that arise when someone asks for constructive advice on one thing or another or on competing products.  I am merely looking for advice from people who hopefully have experience with both platforms.  With that housecleaning out of the way...
 
I somehow stumbled upon VWD a few months ago and thought I would build a few sites using asp.net from scratch. The 'drop-and-drag' controls made it look so easy. While the software is great and quite intuitive, I lacked the skills needed to wire it all up and customize it the way I want.  Someone how during my struggles, I then stumbled upon DUNN.  Wow, after I saw a video on how easy it is to get a basic site up and operable, I was hooked. I spent a couple days trying to get a login feature to look and act the way I wanted it using VWD; I spent 2 minutes dropping and dragging the module using DUNN.  A whole new world opened up.
 
My experience with DUNN is still being measured in weeks, though I have been putting some serious time in trying to get up to speed.  I paid for a subscription to DNNcreative, watched the videos, active in forums on the internet to solve my basic problems.  All is going well.  Hell, I even laid out $90 clams on a skin I really like, which is unlike the cheap b*stard that I am. I read guidebook after guidebook, article after article on my LONG 2 hour train ride to work each day (each way!). I'm feeling pretty good about where I am already...
 
Here's the rub:  I have ZERO C, C++. C+++++, C#, VB, JS, CSS, et al, experience.  I was, however, a superstar at BASIC and could spell my name and make it flash using assembly language on the Apple IIE.  :) I've written a number of small programs/games on my Timex Sinclair, TRS-80, and Commodore 64, though :) ....just haven't kept up with the times, I guess. I did learn HTML the old fashion way a decade ago using notepad (before I found hot dog pro long ago) and using an FTP and spamming the refresh button technique to monitor changes. I can work dreamweaver pretty well, a bit closer to the times. :)
 
Therefore, to get DUNN to do what I want, I must purchase modules, which I have no problem doing.  But when you attach a price tag to what I am trying to do, these modules are adding up, given my inability to customize myself. I am able to get the entire site wired up and looking good, but I lack the main aspect of what I am trying to do:
 
--a series of forms that save the records to a database once users complete the fields, then a second pane that allows users to query those submissions. 
--a "tell-a-friend" referral system that isn't the basic mailto: in simple link form like the freebie modules.  Would rather have a spot for an email address and just a submit button and the preconstructed email is relayed to the intended recipient.
--a survey system that allows me to tie the response to the login demographics of the respondent (Terp, 35, DC, Married, Poor, Yes response), etc, stored during registration.
--and opt-in/opt-out newsletter feature with a few checkboxes (or radio buttons) for different newsletter genres that add people to the subscriber list for future mailings.
--and not sure how this is done (but seen it before), but the ability to have an email sent to someone who clicks on an affiliate link..perhaps a second login account to track the links they've clicked on and the purchases made...hard to explain, but I have seen it done on a site using .php.  I click on their referral link to go to, say, Bestbuy.com, then I get a follow-up email saying I clicked on it...and if I made a purchase, I get a follow-up email in a week or so (perhaps all this is being done manually, but given the volume, I suspect otherwise).
 
Add that up and you are looking at $498.17 in modules.
 
I would also like to host on GoDaddy to start, given the cheap hosting (I know, I know, you get what...) with lots on bandwidth for little money..and trust them enough, based on the reputation they have built, not to go out in the garage and ghost my code off their server and throw up another site that steals my bazillion dollar idea!  ..but I digress.
 
Anyway, I saw a thread about Joomla! on here the other day and did some homework.  There are a TON of free modules out there that do everything I want....customizable forms tied to an SQL DB that allows for user queries, tell-a-friend that does what I want, weather modules, mapping modules, newsletters, free Amazon affiliate modules (or component, the jargon is still new to me with Joomla!).  I could envision my costs going down to near nothing.
 
So to get back to the subject at hand, here's what I am debating:
 
1.) Both platforms seems to use heavy js; is one, however, more SEO ready than the other out of the box? I've seem some very human and search engine friendly sites using Joomla!  This is one of my biggest concerns, second only to the cost of modules.
2.) Are there benefits to using an asp.net platform over .php? Is .net the future and going to kill .php, so better to get in early? 
3.) Given my needs, is one more suited for me than the other?
4.) Ease of deployment to a host and ease to construct the site offline, then upload to the host server.
 
I am just trying to avoid the time (and capital) commitment to learning a new platform, given I have an investment in DUNN already.  :)
 
I also like the admin controls I've seen in Joomla!  Pretty slick interface, but I don't really need all the eye candy, I guess....just an observation.
 
So in short:
 
Which is easiest to learn--.php or asp.net?
Which is more search engine friendly?
Which is easiest for total newbies with zero programming experience using today's languages?
Which is easiest to work offline, then upload to a host (and easiest to wire the DB up for what was already built using a local DB)?

 

I welcome all suggestions/advice.  I am installed the new 4.5.3 now (an old pro at this now) and going to continue playing until I make a decision, then never look back.  I'm wasting a lot of time researching both platforms and could have probably had 5 sites up using DNN by now.

 
New Post
6/1/2007 1:00 PM
 

As much as I hate to admit it, and based on your well thought out and descriptive questions I would have to say Joomla is right for you.

Joomla is just more mature (as you have discovered), and php scripting is easier for most people.

You are also going to find it to be more standards compliant out of the box to aid in SEO at this point in time.

By the way, the acronym for DotNetNuke is DNN instead of DUNN, DNN is not quite "done" and will be playing catch-up to Joomla for the near future at the least.

Now, if you would have said you are a .Net developer and love using .Net then my answer would have been different.
The .Net developer world (especially VB.Net) is where DNN shines.

Anyway, that's just my take on it, I'm sure you'll get more feedback.

 

 


DotNetNuke Modules from Snapsis.com
 
New Post
6/1/2007 2:00 PM
 

John Mitchell wrote

By the way, the acronym for DotNetNuke is DNN instead of DUNN... 

 

Thanks, John.  I just now noticed that the FCK editor or whatever it is called has a spell checker (got it right in the title..typo in body) :)

What got he thinking Joomla! was a bit more search engine friendly was when I looked at the source on a bunch of the sites, including the main .org site.  Knowing a good amount of html, I saw much more that I understood than what I see when I look at DNN portals' source code. With that said, I found a number of free and some cheap SEO modules that will convert my URLs to a more search engine/human friendly format.  Using these, however, would I be on par with sites produced using Joomla!? I've done some serious SEO reading, too, so perhaps I can conpensate for this with backlinks, but just a concern I have...

DNN is so easy to get up and running for me now (installed locally more times than I can stomach, as I just learned that ZoneAlarm doesn't like you to login to your portal running locally...guess it's a cookie issue), and I am able to start from scratch and get everything I want configured, save the modules I am going to be forced to buy, in a matter of a day....really learning my way around, but the next step (which will be true for both platforms) is the customizing of the source code, which is going to be my biggest timesink.

If I didn't buy a sweet skin I love and subscribe to DNNcreative and watch hours upon hours of videos and read dozens of help guides, I would just try Joomla! (free after all...only costs my time), but I am trying to justify staying put.  You guys seem more helpful here in answering all my questions, thus far, too!  :)

XMod is what I thought I needed to buy for my DB needs, but after doing some research, I am not so sure (might have to look at NukeDK?). Everything is written to XML documents (I think that's the proper jargon), and I am not sure how this performs when my database, hopefully, gets about 50,000 entries for users to query. The next version, they say, will incorporate SQL and other DBs, so that might be just what I need. Again, though, there appears to be free modules to do this using Joomla.  I am still undecided.

One more question for you, sir.  Where would one go to start editing the basic code that appears in the default.aspx page?  I've looked everywhere for stuff I could play with (though dangerous, I am mastering the reinstall :) , but to no avail.  For example the stock install puts the DNN plug in the top of the source code and shows up when someone looks at the source code for my site.  I spent an hour looking for the one file that contains this:

 

<!--**********************************************************************************-->
<!-- DotNetNuke - http://www.dotnetnuke.com                                          -->
<!-- Copyright (c) 2002-2007                                                          -->
<!-- by DotNetNuke Corporation   -->
<!--**********************************************************************************-->

 

I also tried to figure out where I can replace a reguar href link with a graphic I desgined, but can't even find where the html link is located...checked in a *bazillion* files using VS, but did not check the tables in the DB, which is where I think everything is...so I'll go play now, but welcome advice on where to go from here...

In short, I guess where the rubber is really hitting the road is on the cost of modules. I was fully prepared to lay out a few bills to get this done, but after seeing the ability to do what I want to do for free, I second guessed myself.

 
New Post
6/1/2007 3:58 PM
 

I agree with the above post. You are like me, except that I began C# about 2 years ago after having last touched Pascal in about 1993. So I have a bit more tied to this piece of work in that I can understand the potential. I expressed my disappointment with its maturity a few posts below so I will not rant again... but if you are not tied to either language, Joomla will give you more bang for your buck.

On the other hand, there are modules which will do what you request but you must pay for them. XMod and ListX come to mind. Check http://www.snowcovered.com/ and you will find a lot there. However, if you are not the developer type or wish to have something more readily available, try the other platforms (as demos) first.

 
New Post
6/1/2007 4:27 PM
 

If you login in as Host and got to Host > Host Settings, then drill down through the different sections you will see a checkbox for "Show Copyrights". Turn that off.


DotNetNuke Modules from Snapsis.com
 
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