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HomeHomeUsing DNN Platf...Using DNN Platf...Administration ...Administration ...Soft Delete - Hard Delete ??? HOW?!Soft Delete - Hard Delete ??? HOW?!
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7/8/2010 6:29 PM
 
Trust me, hard deleting is definitely something you have to approach lightly.

I've got a blog post on how to clean up users, but as Mike said, there are many reasons you may not want to do this.

http://www.dnndaily.com/tips/itemId/3...


Chris Hammond
Former DNN Corp Employee, MVP, Core Team Member, Trustee
Christoc.com Software Solutions DotNetNuke Module Development, Upgrades and consulting.
dnnCHAT.com a chat room for DotNetNuke discussions
 
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7/8/2010 6:46 PM
 
Chris, DNN is literally crippled, out of the box, with this "feature" implemented.

Today, I am attempting to deal with a situation where someone who is a subscriber to Softletter had their basic business information improperly entered. In an attempt to "clear the board," they deleted the record and attempted to reenter the record with the correct information.

THEY CAN'T! They can NEVER, using this unbelievable design, ever enter that record with that E-mail address again!  From the standpoint of DNN, the E-mail address is now in the Phantom Zone.

This is database design at its very worst (and I speak as someone who started off coding in Vulcan).

Utility to hard delete records in DNN
Without the ability to properly manage deletion DNN is very much crippled; it literally requires custom coding and kludges to make it work properly.
 
Amazing.  Someone should be ashamed of themselves.

There are things you COULD do. For example, move soft deleted records into backup tables so the main database could be kept clean. I'm sure there are many good design answers to this issue.

But this is an embarrassment.

And there are simply NO good reasons for what they've done.  No one apparently ever thought through what they'd done. What everyone is doing is creating ugly and custom kludges to work around an obstacle that simply shouldn't exist.

rick chapman
www.softletter.com
www.saasuniversity.com


 
New Post
7/8/2010 7:23 PM
 
Rick, while I understand where you are coming from, just because a username can't be reused without clearing out the rest of the user info, think about the fact that DNN is a multi-portal solution. It's possible that a user can exist in multiple portals. If you deleted the user in one portal, should they be deleted in all portals? A hard delete would cause enormous issues with this.

As for "they can't" "they can never", they can, they just can't use the same username again. If you've turned on the email address restrictions that an email can't be reused with another account, then sure that would cause more potential issues, but DNN doesn't have that enabled by default.

DNN is not crippled, you just ran into a custom issue with your application and one of your customers. Sorry for the trouble, but this is far from a crippling issue to thousands of other websites on the platform.

Chris Hammond
Former DNN Corp Employee, MVP, Core Team Member, Trustee
Christoc.com Software Solutions DotNetNuke Module Development, Upgrades and consulting.
dnnCHAT.com a chat room for DotNetNuke discussions
 
New Post
7/8/2010 7:57 PM
 
+++ Rick, while I understand where you are coming from, just because a username can't be reused without clearing out the rest of the user info, think about the fact that DNN is a multi-portal solution. It's possible that a user can exist in multiple portals. If you deleted the user in one portal, should they be deleted in all portals? A hard delete would cause enormous issues with this.+++

Chris, this is a question of intelligent database design. I don't know how you've assembled this DBMS and I don't want to know. But I'll assume from what you've said that DNN uses a common database framework for all the websites ("portals") that can be built from the basic installation.

And, of course, the answer to that is a table that points to all the portals and a record with the user Id with a field that points to the portals the user is in and of course a flag that indicates if they're in or not in that particular portal, etc, etc.  It's been years since I have had to figure out a relational schema but this isn't THAT hard.

+++ If you've turned on the email address restrictions that an email can't be reused with another account,+++

If you're running John n' Jane's kiddie website, I'm sure allowing multiple records to use the same E-mail account is no problem.

No serious commercial website would allow it; that's a security and liability nightmare.

+++ DNN is not crippled, you just ran into a custom issue +++

This is NOT a custom issue.  This is how this thing is built out of the box. The implementation is poorly thought through and ridiculous on the face of it. A CMS that if you decide not to allow duplicate E-mail records in the DBMS can NEVER purge that record till the end of time! It's sort of funny! If someone unsubscribes from your site, and resubscribes, they'll never be able to! You'll need to have the "Tell the user to change his E-mail moniker; I don't care if he wants to come back, he ain't getting in again with THAT stinking address" DNN module"

I don't really want to argue with you over the point; I don't think there's much to debate here.  I've talked to some very experienced programmers about the design and am having one overcome this horrible implementation. If you have knowledge of some util or plugin that can make this thing work properly, please let me know. Otherwise, I'll just have my guy do what needs to be done.

But I'm sorry; this is an indefensible design.

rick chapman
www.softletter.com
www.saasuniversity.com

 
New Post
7/8/2010 8:25 PM
 
I agree that this feature is missing completion, the lack of hard delete and re-use option has been already logged into Gemini (support.dotnetnuke.com) and is awaiting to be taken care of. And I agree, there are a number of reasons for hard delete, e.g. legislation regarding data protection in Europe. if you clear items from users and aspnet_users tables, you should be fine (unless a 3rd party module placed some misbehaving FK reference on the users table).

Cheers from Germany,
Sebastian Leupold

dnnWerk - The DotNetNuke Experts   German Spoken DotNetNuke User Group

Speed up your DNN Websites with TurboDNN
 
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